EOL Scouting elk with airplanes?! SMH...

[Hookdown]

You sounded good until this. He didn't "purposely endanger" any aircraft or passengers. He was just doing his own thing.

Rich, I'm not sure if you're a pilot or not. Regardless, you should realize that any airborne aircraft "shares" the skies with other aircraft around them. There are rules, regulations and practices that are "written in blood" due to past accidents and incidents. Just like many other professions, when a pilot gains a pilot license, he agrees to read, understand and abide by those rules, regulations and practices. When they don't, they are endangering themselves and anyone around them affected. Otherwise, by your logic, if I decide to drive the wrong way down s one way road at night, with no headlights, I'm merely "doing my own thing" and should be held unaccountable for any accidents or deaths I cause. It's "apples and apples." He flew into restricted areas and also during a time when any flight itself was prohibited. He endangered others with his incompetence and is lucky nothing really bad happened. Ask any pilot, his infractions are very serious.

 

[Country Bumpkin]

Maybe - I know there are several episodes where his wife Chris shoots the animals a little far back (gut shots) even at pretty close range, I think there was a mexico hunt or something - she blamed it on the gun not fitting her well. Whatevs, I haven't ever met them. In the episode I am referring to they get a call from somebody who tells them they have found a big elk - they have a wyoming elk in the back of the pick up. Drop that elk off at their shop and take off to Oregon. I am not sure how much effort they actually put in to this particular hunt - show makes it seem like very little. Regardless, I have no personal experience with them, so I will defer to you. All I know is how their shows come across, and the optics aren't that great. The only other hunting show I have watched recently is Meateater. Steve doesn't guide and isn't trying to sell success or hunts, so maybe it seems more authentic. I definitely haven't seen him out flying around in an airplane in the middle of his hunt looking for game.

Steve Rinella, now this is an ambassador that our sport needs more of. His podcast is an awesome way to learn, I've been hunting for 20 years now and I learn something new on every episode. He's also very much the same person face to face when my son and I met him.

 

[Troutslayer2]

I used to dvr a bunch of hunting shows but recently stopped recording them. Those guys will do anything for the camera. The thing that turned me off the most was on a recent Jim Shockey episode where he clearly had set up a mountain lion encounter as if he were shooting in a self defense dangerous game situation. He clearly knew that lion was there and was injured or sick and he had the camera rolling to try and play it off as an authentic encounter. Then he very poorly "acted" surprised. Between that kind of stuff, the high fence hunting that they try and pass of as fair chase, and the political agendas that are squarely against public land I just can't stomach it anymore.

 

[Rich Coyle]

Rich, I'm not sure if you're a pilot or not. Regardless, you should realize that any airborne aircraft "shares" the skies with other aircraft around them. There are rules, regulations and practices that are "written in blood" due to past accidents and incidents. Just like many other professions, when a pilot gains a pilot license, he agrees to read, understand and abide by those rules, regulations and practices. When they don't, they are endangering themselves and anyone around them affected. Otherwise, by your logic, if I decide to drive the wrong way down s one way road at night, with no headlights, I'm merely "doing my own thing" and should be held unaccountable for any accidents or deaths I cause. It's "apples and apples." He flew into restricted areas and also during a time when any flight itself was prohibited. He endangered others with his incompetence and is lucky nothing really bad happened. Ask any pilot, his infractions are very serious.

You're digging yourself in deeper. You're stuck in the idea he intentionally endangered himself and others. A person can be careless by accident.

 

[Hookdown]

You're digging yourself in deeper. You're stuck in the idea he intentionally endangered himself and others. A person can be careless by accident.

Rich, I'm not digging myself in at all. You are speaking of a subject of which you obviously have no grasp. Quit while you're way behind. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse." It's a concept our country operates on. Whether his discretions were intentional, through ignorance, apathy or any other reason, is moot. Pilots who fail to follow regulations are a danger to themselves and others, and have no place in the sky. Airliners have been brought down by very small airplanes, not doing things right. The people on the airliner are just as dead, regardless of anyone's intentions. You aren't going to win this one, because you simply as wrong as wrong can be. And any pilot worth his salt will tell you exactly the same. There are things you MUST do before every flight to meet the most basic level of safety. Checking NOTAMs is one of them.

 

[WildRose]

Rich, I'm not digging myself in at all. You are speaking of a subject of which you obviously have no grasp. Quit while you're way behind. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse." It's a concept our country operates on. Whether his discretions were intentional, through ignorance, apathy or any other reason, is moot. Pilots who fail to follow regulations are a danger to themselves and others, and have no place in the sky. Airliners have been brought down by very small airplanes, not doing things right. The people on the airliner are just as dead, regardless of anyone's intentions. You aren't going to win this one, because you simply as wrong as wrong can be. And any pilot worth his salt will tell you exactly the same. There are things you MUST do before every flight to meet the most basic level of safety. Checking NOTAMs is one of them.

Who specifically did he put in danger? There must be a record of his doing so somewhere.

People do things every day that are potentially dangerous to themselves and others without actually engangering anyone.

A pilot who closes their eyes while flying "potentially" engangers any other aircraft in the vicinity but if there are no aircraft in the vicinity and they are flying above all terrestrial objects who exactly was in danger?

 

[Rich Coyle]

Rich, I'm not digging myself in at all. You are speaking of a subject of which you obviously have no grasp. Quit while you're way behind. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse." It's a concept our country operates on. Whether his discretions were intentional, through ignorance, apathy or any other reason, is moot. Pilots who fail to follow regulations are a danger to themselves and others, and have no place in the sky. Airliners have been brought down by very small airplanes, not doing things right. The people on the airliner are just as dead, regardless of anyone's intentions. You aren't going to win this one, because you simply as wrong as wrong can be. And any pilot worth his salt will tell you exactly the same. There are things you MUST do before every flight to meet the most basic level of safety. Checking NOTAMs is one of them.

You seem to forget. You started by saying he intentionally put others and himself in danger. You have no idea of his intention unless he tells you. I am still on the same level I was when you and I started this hijack.

 

[the hunter]

I used to dvr a bunch of hunting shows but recently stopped recording them. Those guys will do anything for the camera. The thing that turned me off the most was on a recent Jim Shockey episode where he clearly had set up a mountain lion encounter as if he were shooting in a self defense dangerous game situation. He clearly knew that lion was there and was injured or sick and he had the camera rolling to try and play it off as an authentic encounter. Then he very poorly "acted" surprised. Between that kind of stuff, the high fence hunting that they try and pass of as fair chase, and the political agendas that are squarely against public land I just can't stomach it anymore.

Then look up Randy Newberg on youtube.

 

[stx]

Tagging in

 

[epoletna]

What is the difference between flying around, Driving around or setting up game cameras ?. To me they all appear to be used for locating game.

I think the difference is the time delay afterward. You drive around, then return to your base before you start tracking. Or you have to check your game camera, then start tracking. With flying, because of the speed of the plane, you can be back to the airport and in your vehicle within a few minutes. It stretches the concept of "fair chase," and some state just plain outlaw it. There is also the issue of "driving" game. You can push game with a plane. Not so easy with a vehicle and essentially impossible with a camera.

 

[Mystras]

I'm a pilot and a hunter, I haven't flown in 12 years though but when I did and had access to a plane I used it to scout for elk where I live in Northern Arizona. (Back in the day before google earth and other available aerial mapping tools). It doesn't ensure animals will be in the same area though after you land. Hunting ethics is always important here and there are rules to ensure we play fair. As a pilot you cannot "Harass" wildlife. There are Federal and state regs against that... risking imprisonment fines and impounding of your aircraft. You cannot call/radio from the air to someone on the ground and give information (not cool and against local state regulations). It is illegal to take, assist in taking, harass, chase, drive, locate or assist in locating wildlife from an aircraft in my state. Drones are considered aircraft as well in Arizona. Many states have enacted similar laws. Arizona also states you cannot use an aircraft within 48 hours of your hunt period or during to locate animals from an aircraft. You still have to pound the ground and do all the other things you do on foot to find the animals. The advantage here is you get a mental map of the area from the air and have a chance animals still may be in the area a couple days later. Since I don't fly anymore I use satellite imagery (more readily available and cheaper than flying) and maps to help me know where drainage areas are and where possible feeding/bedding areas are but I still do my homework in the preseason and pound the ground, setup cameras and watch the weather. Flying is a great tool and a source of enjoyment for many of us, but there are so many other free tools out there that it isn't as value added as it once was.

 

[mrmolar119]

Yes. I think I have seen that episode. That's legal here in oregon but you cant hunt for 24 hours I believe after the plane ride. Same with a drone. It sure makes him look lazy on TV that's for sure. But people who have the money can always find a way to justify their actions.

 

[mrmolar119]

I am watching the most recent episode of Extreme Outer Limits on youtube and Bob Beck is trying to find a moster elk in Oregon. They hop in a plane and locate 4 good bulls, mark them on their map and then go after them - I haven't ever seen anybody do that and it totally rubbed me the wrong way...maybe its because I don't have access to a plane? Lol. Seriously though, at what point are we crossing the line?

Maybe he should get in a little bit better shape and put in the work to go find them the old fashioned way....I seriously can't believe they put that shiz on TV!

I'm wondering how they know that you waited 24 hrs. The govt stamps your hand when you get off the airplane.

 

[FIGJAM]

I'm wondering how they know that you waited 24 hrs. The govt stamps your hand when you get off the airplane.

Good point...