Regardless of range, while it is NOT the only factor, "I" like my BC to be as high as possible.
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Does BC matters?
- Thread starter FEENIX
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Like BCs themselves, this question could have a lot of answers. You don't really need to know BC to make good hits at distance. this is accomplished with practice. In fact you need to actually shoot at distance to verify BC. Estimated BCs make initial calculations much easier to predict drop and wind deflection to then actually achieve an accurate definition of a true BC in a given load/rifle. Once achieved, this will also define effective range to a bullets operating window for on target functionality. Do you nee to know the BC of a given bullet to make hits? No. Can it be a very good tool to aid in making hits? Certainly. A great, simple complicated question Sir!
I thought the videos addressed what you noted exceptionally well.
Hugnot
Well-Known Member
Dropping more stuff into this:
From Berger Manual
"We've discussed what the G7 form factor is: a factor that relates the drag of any bullet to the drag of the G7 standard projectile. So why is it so important to have an awareness and understanding of form factor? Isn't this what BC's are for; to be able to make comparisons between bullets using a single number? It's true that BC is a useful measure of merit for ballistic performance, but there's a problem with using BC's alone to assess ballistic performance. The problem with BC's is that they combine the effects of mass and drag into one number. So if a bullet has a high BC, you don't know if it's a medium weight bullet with very low drag, or a heavy bullet with high drag. The reason this is important is because if a bullet has a high BC just because it's heavy, it will suffer from having a depressed muzzle velocity, and performance will not be as good as the high BC implies."
Berger Bullet Chart - bullet ID, SD, BC, & FF
FF lower value is less drag, note disparity of BC's as related to drag for 6.5, 130's & 140's.
From Berger Manual
"We've discussed what the G7 form factor is: a factor that relates the drag of any bullet to the drag of the G7 standard projectile. So why is it so important to have an awareness and understanding of form factor? Isn't this what BC's are for; to be able to make comparisons between bullets using a single number? It's true that BC is a useful measure of merit for ballistic performance, but there's a problem with using BC's alone to assess ballistic performance. The problem with BC's is that they combine the effects of mass and drag into one number. So if a bullet has a high BC, you don't know if it's a medium weight bullet with very low drag, or a heavy bullet with high drag. The reason this is important is because if a bullet has a high BC just because it's heavy, it will suffer from having a depressed muzzle velocity, and performance will not be as good as the high BC implies."
Berger Bullet Chart - bullet ID, SD, BC, & FF
FF lower value is less drag, note disparity of BC's as related to drag for 6.5, 130's & 140's.
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Feenix - thanks for sharing the videos. Everything matters when shooting LR. We are so fortunate today to have the tools to make it much easier than it was decades ago. Nothing trumps practice and experience, but understanding the fundamentals of BC and ballistics systems can make the journey to success far less frustrating. Now if I didn't have to drive over an hour to practice long range shooting, I would be golden.
cornshank
Well-Known Member
You know why BC ,s. Matter to me ?
I like every little advantage , when shooting, so if in my mind ,
My bullets fly through the air the best they can , I'm happy ,
Even if it's just the thought of them doing so .
I like every little advantage , when shooting, so if in my mind ,
My bullets fly through the air the best they can , I'm happy ,
Even if it's just the thought of them doing so .
QuietTexan
Well-Known Member
100% correct, for BC alone to be a valid point of comparison between two bullets they must share a common design philosophy. Otherwise significant additional information has to be provided to be able to construct a comparison. The G7 form factor provides a decently condensed data point to account for design differences - primarily it accounts for bullet length as part of overall weight, and narrows the range of potential gyroscopic stability variances because similarly designed bullets will have similar velocity ranges where instability will cause a degradation of BC.
The best advancements in high-BC design are in turned monos, and CE is leading the pack here with their tipped fracturing petal designs. High BC, very consistent bullet-to-bullet BCs, about the only downside is they require higher twist rates than commonly sold in off-the-rack rifles. Twist rates so high in fact they can make cup and core bullets unshootable. It takes a 6 twist to spin a .308 CE 240gn, try to run a 210 Berger through that coming out of a big magnum and the only thing that gets to the target might be shrapnel.
Even Berger got on board with turned monos for their 375 for ELR.
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Great videos. I especially liked the parts when they pointed out how important it is that the manufacturer publishes numbers as close to accurate as possible and that inflating numbers to look more attractive doesn't do anyone any good.
BC does matter for the long range shooter/hunter and specifically a high BC matters most, when you can get. For the hunter, ensuring the bullet performs properly at your desired max range is crucial, and all the BC in the world won't matter if the bullet doesn't do the job properly upon impact. But, determining the max range of a particular bullet, if you know it's minimum impact velocity threshold, goes hand in hand with its BC. You need to know how much velocity will be retained to know exactly what the max range potential is with a particular bullet. If you're looking for a bullet for a particular cartridge and rifle setup, you want and need to trust published BC so that your decision making process has any chance of being made properly and accurately. The consumer shouldn't be left to just hope for the best and accept that the values might be way off and accept that they just need to try it out and find out for themselves. That seems quite unacceptable to me.
Yes, we all need to true our BC, and our actual BC will vary from the published due to differences like twist rate, barrel length, MV, environmental conditions, etc. However, the actual trued BC should not be significantly different from published, especially a G7 figure. If it's off too much due to poorly estimated or simply inflated published values (specifically lower in value) it means your max range is now lower, wind drift will be more at a set distance, etc and now you're not getting the max range you bought the bullet for in the first place. Now you have to make compromises, or start over. That's highly frustrating, and I've been there and done that.
BC is important to us for those reasons, and so we can accurately calculate our ballistics and put accurate rounds on our target. I'm not sure how many of us would say BC is priority number one though. I don't think many of us, if any, look at BC first when selecting a hunting bullet.
I personally (so your needs will be your own) want a bullet, in most cases, that will allow for quick and clean kills out to at least 1000 yards. That means I need to look at its minimum impact velocity potential and then if that puts me at 1000 yards or more in my particular cartridge and rifle. I have to determine likely MV, and then look at the published BC the manufacturer provides to determine that. If that published BC is way off, my figures will be too.
Once you true your BC though, and it's still at a value that gives you your desired max range, you're set. It doesn't really matter what it is at that point as long as it meets your requirements.
I use BC to make my bullet selection, make my ballistic charts, and to input into my Kestrel. I don't go chasing the latest and greatest bullet because it has a slightly higher BC.
BC does matter for the long range shooter/hunter and specifically a high BC matters most, when you can get. For the hunter, ensuring the bullet performs properly at your desired max range is crucial, and all the BC in the world won't matter if the bullet doesn't do the job properly upon impact. But, determining the max range of a particular bullet, if you know it's minimum impact velocity threshold, goes hand in hand with its BC. You need to know how much velocity will be retained to know exactly what the max range potential is with a particular bullet. If you're looking for a bullet for a particular cartridge and rifle setup, you want and need to trust published BC so that your decision making process has any chance of being made properly and accurately. The consumer shouldn't be left to just hope for the best and accept that the values might be way off and accept that they just need to try it out and find out for themselves. That seems quite unacceptable to me.
Yes, we all need to true our BC, and our actual BC will vary from the published due to differences like twist rate, barrel length, MV, environmental conditions, etc. However, the actual trued BC should not be significantly different from published, especially a G7 figure. If it's off too much due to poorly estimated or simply inflated published values (specifically lower in value) it means your max range is now lower, wind drift will be more at a set distance, etc and now you're not getting the max range you bought the bullet for in the first place. Now you have to make compromises, or start over. That's highly frustrating, and I've been there and done that.
BC is important to us for those reasons, and so we can accurately calculate our ballistics and put accurate rounds on our target. I'm not sure how many of us would say BC is priority number one though. I don't think many of us, if any, look at BC first when selecting a hunting bullet.
I personally (so your needs will be your own) want a bullet, in most cases, that will allow for quick and clean kills out to at least 1000 yards. That means I need to look at its minimum impact velocity potential and then if that puts me at 1000 yards or more in my particular cartridge and rifle. I have to determine likely MV, and then look at the published BC the manufacturer provides to determine that. If that published BC is way off, my figures will be too.
Once you true your BC though, and it's still at a value that gives you your desired max range, you're set. It doesn't really matter what it is at that point as long as it meets your requirements.
I use BC to make my bullet selection, make my ballistic charts, and to input into my Kestrel. I don't go chasing the latest and greatest bullet because it has a slightly higher BC.
BC is simply part of the puzzle to creating a round to do exactly what you need it to do. Yes, it should be used to compare similarly designed bullets.
Sectional density is another value that needs to be compared to similarly constructed bullets and not just by itself, particularly in regards to penetration potential of the bullet. It depends greatly on how the bullet is constructed. I high amount alone does not necessarily equate to a high amount of penetration, and a low number does not necessarily equate to a more shallow penetration.
Sectional density is another value that needs to be compared to similarly constructed bullets and not just by itself, particularly in regards to penetration potential of the bullet. It depends greatly on how the bullet is constructed. I high amount alone does not necessarily equate to a high amount of penetration, and a low number does not necessarily equate to a more shallow penetration.
L! I guess I did not make myself clear enough.
QuietTexan
Well-Known Member
You want as high a BC as possible, but unlike the masses we know you're also smart enough to not use a .375 target mono on a whitetail at 50 yards simply because it has best-in-class BC 
But now that I say it that's pretty much like shooting a 338 Win Mag or a 45-75. Might actually not be the worst close-in setup..... the big hole theory has some serious virtue for putting animals down.
And if you neck shoot them, does it really matter what you hit them with?
But now that I say it that's pretty much like shooting a 338 Win Mag or a 45-75. Might actually not be the worst close-in setup..... the big hole theory has some serious virtue for putting animals down.
And if you neck shoot them, does it really matter what you hit them with?
Jeff Heeg osoh
Well-Known Member
Where BC shines the most.
Elevation is very predictable for the most part and yes Higher BCs will gain a little more distance.
But where it really shines is in wind drift, on a windy day be it on a shooting range at a event or more importantly in your favorite hunting stand, the winds will push a higher BC bullet off the target aiming point "less" the a lower BC bullet. As mentioned sometimes there a compromise where a bullet designed to open up at lower speeds on a animal trumps a super high BC bullet. But there are many good bullet options that carry both good qualities.
JH
Elevation is very predictable for the most part and yes Higher BCs will gain a little more distance.
But where it really shines is in wind drift, on a windy day be it on a shooting range at a event or more importantly in your favorite hunting stand, the winds will push a higher BC bullet off the target aiming point "less" the a lower BC bullet. As mentioned sometimes there a compromise where a bullet designed to open up at lower speeds on a animal trumps a super high BC bullet. But there are many good bullet options that carry both good qualities.
JH
Thanks for sharing the videos.
High BC bullets have made some smaller cartridges more efficient. Take the 7mm-08, maxed out at 300 to 400 yds for deer depending elevation. Now it can now be used up to 700 or 800yds, again depending on elevation.
And of course made the magnums cartridges more efficient.
High BC bullets have made some smaller cartridges more efficient. Take the 7mm-08, maxed out at 300 to 400 yds for deer depending elevation. Now it can now be used up to 700 or 800yds, again depending on elevation.
And of course made the magnums cartridges more efficient.
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Hugnot
Well-Known Member
Continuing ......
I have selected the Hornady .224 75 grain ELDM (.22-.250) & Berger 6mm 87 grain VLD (.243W, 6mmCM & 6mmAI) as my bullets of choice for longish range rodent shooting. Cost & availability would include the modest G1 BC (.4) 6mm 87 Vmax.
Hornady bullet specs appear reasonable & coincide with H 4DOF calculations & observed results.
This gets into bullet form factors (' the form factor is the bullets drag divided by the drag of a standard bullet") or SD/G7BC & the 75 gr. 224 ELDM can be driven faster than many having comparable G7 BC's and have less drag. Same for the 87 gr. 6mm Berger VLD. The less pointy & G1 BC (.4) handicapped 87 6mm VMax can hold its own most of the way out there & blows up real good & is cheap & available. Both 6mm 87 Berger VLD & 87 VMax will stabilize in my 10 twist 6mm AI & also perform good in my 8 twist 6mm's.
Availability of high BC & low drag bullets like the 75 .224 ELDM - "High BC bullets have made some smaller cartridges more efficient" - like the little .22-.250.
I have selected the Hornady .224 75 grain ELDM (.22-.250) & Berger 6mm 87 grain VLD (.243W, 6mmCM & 6mmAI) as my bullets of choice for longish range rodent shooting. Cost & availability would include the modest G1 BC (.4) 6mm 87 Vmax.
Hornady bullet specs appear reasonable & coincide with H 4DOF calculations & observed results.
This gets into bullet form factors (' the form factor is the bullets drag divided by the drag of a standard bullet") or SD/G7BC & the 75 gr. 224 ELDM can be driven faster than many having comparable G7 BC's and have less drag. Same for the 87 gr. 6mm Berger VLD. The less pointy & G1 BC (.4) handicapped 87 6mm VMax can hold its own most of the way out there & blows up real good & is cheap & available. Both 6mm 87 Berger VLD & 87 VMax will stabilize in my 10 twist 6mm AI & also perform good in my 8 twist 6mm's.
Availability of high BC & low drag bullets like the 75 .224 ELDM - "High BC bullets have made some smaller cartridges more efficient" - like the little .22-.250.
