Discussion: bullet annealing

[8x68s]

Ran into this online and wanted to open up a discussion concerning the info in the article. The article only mentions the annealing of Berger bullets but the method is referenced in regard to other bullets (tough bonded and mono's) in individual bullet study info on the same website. The basic idea is that for long range shooting the annealing softens vld and other high BC bullet forebodies to make them less likely to pencil thru animal bodies @ extended range velocities.

Berger VLD annealing tutorial

So, waddaya think?

 

[Black Hat]

I anneal my Berger 6mm 95g VLD tips in water then tip them over with a screwdriver to quench. A salt bath annealer would probably work best if you had one.
I use them on wild dogs and foxes and they work well, hasn't affected accuracy at the range either.

 

[lancetkenyon]

How far do you want to hunt with them? I haven't found a need to anneal to soften a bullet jacket. I have shot coyotes to 1367 yards and they died just fine.

Lead melts ats 620°F. Copper doesn't start to anneal until 700°, up to 1200°. So be careful annealing the jacket, because the lead inside will be molten when you do.

 

[cohunt]

I've heard of people doing this to the noses of hard cast bullets but never bothered to try it

 

[Carey Farmer]

As a build on lancetkenyon's comments: copper at 700 degrees F takes an hour to anneal. Takes only one minute at 1100 degrees F. Both seem impractical given lead's melting point.

 

[8x68s]

How far do you want to hunt with them? I haven't found a need to anneal to soften a bullet jacket. I have shot coyotes to 1367 yards and they died just fine.

Lead melts ats 620°F. Copper doesn't start to anneal until 700°, up to 1200°. So be careful annealing the jacket, because the lead inside will be molten when you do.

As a build on lancetkenyon's comments: copper at 700 degrees F takes an hour to anneal. Takes only one minute at 1100 degrees F. Both seem impractical given lead's melting point.

C'mon you guys! Did you bother to watch the video? He demonstrates his method which involves placing the bullet in water to 3/4 depth to keep the lead portion of the bullet cool while heating the tip. The water doesn't even boil.

 

[Carey Farmer]

C'mon you guys! Did you bother to watch the video? He demonstrates his method which involves placing the bullet in water to 3/4 depth to keep the lead portion of the bullet cool while heating the tip. The water doesn't even boil.

8 x 68, you are right, I should have watched the video.

If you can get a dull red glow (visible in a darkened room) on the bullet meplat, and after moving away the torch flame keep the bullet upright until any melted lead solidifies again, probably a valid method.

Carey

 

[8x68s]

I don't necessarily feel that this guy is correct without testing the idea myself but for folks that shoot game beyond, say 600 yds., this method might be helpful with creating a bullet tip that expands better at lower velocities. (Opening meplats certainly helps with expansion, too, but hinders BC's at the same time)
Also might be useful for softening the tips of Barnes TSX's. I thought Barnes original formula for their brass (softer) was a good idea, though it resulted in copper sliming barrels. This seems to be a good solution for the newer ones without a tip.
I don't have any metallurgy education or training but would molten lead cooling in a bullet like this equate to bonding? Or are bonded bullets done with chemical corrosion?

 

[lancetkenyon]

C'mon you guys! Did you bother to watch the video? He demonstrates his method which involves placing the bullet in water to 3/4 depth to keep the lead portion of the bullet cool while heating the tip. The water doesn't even boil.

I have seen the video before. I understand the heat sink aspect. But a cautionary warning is never a bad thing. I still tell my guys every day to be safe in their tasks they perform daily. There was a post about someone "annealing a Berger then tipping it over in water to cool". If you are properly annealing the copper jacket to the temps needed, the lead inside is molten, if only at the point above the waterline. Still sound advice to be careful.

But again, how far do you plan to hunt with these manipulated bullets? When velocities drop below a certain point, you are just beyond your rifle/cartridge/bullet choice capabilities to deliver the on-game performance needed, no matter what you do. Want to stretch it out? Take more gun.

 

[Petey308]

Just use a Berger with a hybrid ogive and you don't need to worry about annealing.

The whole reason Nathan was annealing the VLDs is because it was/is needed to get them soft enough for reliable expansion for shots that would impact below like 1800fps. This stemmed from around 2011, when Berger changed the jackets on the VLDs to fix the issues some guys were having with bullets blowing up in flight. They were blowing up because the cores were literally melting from all the heat transferred from the excessive friction produced by the fast twist and long barrel combos guys were switching to in order to properly stabilize the new heavier, higher BC, bullets coming out to fill the new demand. The thin jackets they'd been using simply couldn't hold back the heat. So Berger thickened the jackets, but in the drawing process, and then swaging process, the jackets end up thickening more at the ogive and particularly towards the tip. This makes them less reliable to expand properly at lower impact velocities.

The new hybrid design doesn't have that issue. They feature a larger cavity plus thinner ogives and expand very reliably down to at least 1600fps and non pointed varieties down to around 1400fps. No need to anneal them.

So do what you want, as annealing the VLDs has shown to work, but it's a process that's no fun and I personally just tend to use a better bullet in cases like this.

 

[Darryle]

C'mon you guys! Did you bother to watch the video? He demonstrates his method which involves placing the bullet in water to 3/4 depth to keep the lead portion of the bullet cool while heating the tip. The water doesn't even boil.

3/4 submerged will still be heating the lead, heat transfers to the core even with a heat sink.

I won't be annealing any bullets anytime soon, if they don't do what they are designed to do from the factory, I will go in search of a new bullet.

Why not pin drill the tips and call it good?

Bullet Annealing Thread

****Edited to correct grammatical errors****

 

[Petey308]

3/4 submerged will still be heating the lead, heat transfers to the core even with a heat soak.

I won't be annealing any bullets anytime soon, if they don't do what they are designed to do from the factory, I will go in search of a new bullet.

Why not pin drill the tips and call it good?

Bullet Annealing Thread


View attachment 398077View attachment 398078

Drilling requires being consistent and square. You have the potential to throw of the balance of the bullet. It's not a big concern if you're shooting closer range but I'd say if you're concerned about softening them by annealing you're probably needing a lower impact velocity capability. So my recommendation in this regard is to get a meplat trimmer and widen the meplats that way. It'll give you a similar effect but ensure things stay concentric and balanced.

Again though, I just switched to a bullet that doesn't require this kind of work and have been much happier at my bench as a result lol.

 

[Mike Matteson]

Sounds like making a silk purses out of a sous ear. Use the correct bullets to do the job. I often wonder why people use target bullets for hunting.

 

[Petey308]

Sounds like making a silk purses out of a sous ear. Use the correct bullets to do the job. I often wonder why people use target bullets for hunting.

A lot of them actually work really well. There's more to it than the simple classification of "target" or "hunting".