Could there have been a bad run of bergers ?

[Trm82]

Is it possible that Berger bullets had some bad runs of 168 vldh ( orange box) say maybe 8 years ago?
Here's what's been happening , I got a rifle chambered in a 7 saum and I've have fired under 10 rounds fired through it . The very first one I fired stuck the bolt so hard I broke the extractor.
So the last 9 shots were 3 gr under what hodgdon calls there minimum load and I'm still having pressure issues
So tonight I just received my 7 prc from gunsmith and I was using my comparator to measure a bunch of bullets in the chamber and I noticed that the 168 were tight going into the modified case. So I took a 175 elite and it went in like butter and I then opened a box of new 168 vldh (yellow box ) and went in like butter.
So the orange box measure 0.2845
And the new yellow box all measure 0.284
Was that normal for the older bergers ? could they all have been like that then and they've now changed them and is that enough to give me the pressure issues I'm having ?
Any info or advice will be greatly appreciated
Thanks.

 

[Bob Wright]

Will those bullets by themselves slip into the barrel resting against the lands? (Same process with an ogive comparator measurement?)

 

[FEENIX]

Is it possible that Berger bullets had some bad runs of 168 vldh ( orange box) say maybe 8 years ago?
Here's what's been happening , I got a rifle chambered in a 7 saum and I've have fired under 10 rounds fired through it . The very first one I fired stuck the bolt so hard I broke the extractor.
So the last 9 shots were 3 gr under what hodgdon calls there minimum load and I'm still having pressure issues
So tonight I just received my 7 prc from gunsmith and I was using my comparator to measure a bunch of bullets in the chamber and I noticed that the 168 were tight going into the modified case. So I took a 175 elite and it went in like butter and I then opened a box of new 168 vldh (yellow box ) and went in like butter.
So the orange box measure 0.2845
And the new yellow box all measure 0.284
Was that normal for the older bergers ? could they all have been like that then and they've now changed them and is that enough to give me the pressure issues I'm having ?
Any info or advice will be greatly appreciated
Thanks.

Yes, maybe, maybe, no.

 

[Trm82]

E. Will those bullets by themselves slip into the barrel resting against the lands? (Same process with an ogive comparator measurement?)

Not sure on that. I will have to check when I get home.

 

[BrentM]

Absolutely. I had a couple boxes with 30 thousands difference in bearing surface. I could not get any consistency.

 

[ShtrRdy]

I don't know if this is related. It seems like it might be.

Several years ago I had some Berger 6.5mm, 140 gr VLD that, when seated in the 260 Rem case, could be easily pushed in further . The problem turned out to be the pressure ring on the bullet was almost 0.001" larger than the bearing surface.

Measure the pressure ring diameter and bearing surface diameter and then give Berger, (Capstone), a call or email. They'll make it right.

 

[Rosebud]

Yes, I have most of a box of 500 VLD,s setting on the shelf. Sent samples to them and they did respond that they out of spec. Sent me another box two months later. Don't know why I keep them maybe it's time for the trash can.

 

[BrentM]

Yes, I have most of a box of 500 VLD,s setting on the shelf. Sent samples to them and they did respond that they out of spec. Sent me another box two months later. Don't know why I keep them maybe it's time for the trash can.

barrel break in bullets for me or close range plinkers. I also use them for foulers.

 

[buckbrush]

Yes, maybe, maybe, no.

?

 

[birddog 68]

So the last 9 shots were 3 gr under what hodgdon calls there minimum load and I'm still having pressure issues

3 grains under starting load?

 

[Trm82]

3 grains under starting load?

Yup. Hodgdon says minimum 64 gr h1000
And I was at 61 gr.

 

[WapitiBob]

I have a substantial oal difference between 195's in the yellow box vs orange box, like .020".

 

[VinceMule]

As dies wear, the pressure ring gets larger, this could be to your benefit in a worn barrel or a barrel that is a tad oversize in bore dia..you never know.

The issue is throat dia. Most reamers are ground to a .0005 over bullet dia, and there are exceptions, especially in some brands of factory rifles. These bullets that are .0007-.0010 over bullet dia are called "FAT" bullets.

As you shoot a barrel, everyone knows that the leade grows in length, but it also grows in diameter. As the barrel gets worn, often those fat bullets shoot like a house a fire.

When I was shooting Benchrest Comp, I had my bullet-making dies ground to mimic Euber bullets which were "fat" bullets.

As high demand for bullets combined with Covid, manufacturers either can not or will not keep up with old-school quality control. In fact, each bullet-making machine used to have its own lot#, but now they dump the bullets from several machines into the same lot#. This type of approach means that the point-up dies on each machine have a +/- standard to be in spec. For a few of us reloaders trying to get the utmost in precision, this presents a challenge in us doing our own Quality Control.

So, sort bullets by pressure ring and ogive length, to get the best results. It is sheer madness to find a spread of .020 or more on a single box of bullets. So, I buy five to ten boxes and spend Winter hours sorting, and this pays big dividends on group size. Often seating depth variations of .003 can have a tremendous influence on group size.

You have to remember a very important issue on oversize bullets. If the throat dia is .2845, and your bullet measures .2850, when you chamber the round, the bullet is going to be pushed back into the case and the bullet can be pulled out of the case upon extraction. If you can chamber the round, there may be some bullet shavings in the chamber, or the bullet maybe swedged down, all of which can create pressure problems. Knowing the exact chamber dimensions from a Cerosafe chamber cast is prudent when dealing with Fat bullets. To make the issue even more complicated, the reamer makers have a +/-.0005 tolerance in how a reamer is ground, still being in spec.

Due to "Fat" bullet runs, gunsmiths are having more liberal size throats ground at this time. Hornady is currently running some fat bullets, .2435 in the 6mm variants that got me into trouble with some of my .2435 throats on various 6ppc, 6 BR, 6 BRX, and 6 Dashers that I shoot.

So, with the OPs Fat 7mm bullets, some homework needs to be done on the exact dimensions of the chamber that they will be shot through.

There are bullet makers in the past that made a living off of making "fat" pressure ring bullets.

 

[FEENIX]

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