Choosing the LOP compromise for different shooting positions..?

WildRose

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How do you choose the LOP so it works fairly well with most shooting positions...???
I've always done just fine with most factory length stocks.

If you want a custom length make a bend your arm at 90 degrees and curl your trigger finger like you're pulling a trigger and measure from there to the crotch of your elbow and that will get you very close.

If having the perfect length is essential you can get most stocks with an adjustable LOP or have it added.

I find that setting proper eye relief on your scope and being aware of the changes in same when shooting at angles and adjusting for same to be far more important than stock length.
 

AGL4now

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I've always done just fine with most factory length stocks.

If you want a custom length make a bend your arm at 90 degrees and curl your trigger finger like you're pulling a trigger and measure from there to the crotch of your elbow and that will get you very close.

If having the perfect length is essential you can get most stocks with an adjustable LOP or have it added.

I find that setting proper eye relief on your scope and being aware of the changes in same when shooting at angles and adjusting for same to be far more important than stock length.


Specifically I am asking about the LOP differences for different shooting positions. Lets pretend you are at a custom stock builder, and they have a "Master Fitter" who will fit you for the perfect stock fit for shooting "Prone".

You get that stock and it is "Perfect" for shooting Prone position. You are so happy, that you go back and ask to be fitted for a custom stock for a rifle that you will only ever shoot from either at bench or shoot "Off Hand" position. You receive this stock and it is "Perfect".

Question: when you measure the LOP of each......will they be exactly the same....???

If one is shorter, which one is shorter......and roughly by how much shorter...???

If we repeated this for ten thousand men, what would the "Average" discovered distance be, for overall variance for most men....for those two shooting positions....???

I have lived in Alaska for 48 of the 71 years of my life. Early on I learned that the perfect LOP for summer dress is much longer then what works when wearing several inches of arctic clothing in the winter. So I have summer rifles and winter rifles. I also have PH rifles that are LOP half way between Summer and/or Winter LOP, but they have a very-very rounded "Heel" for quick snag-free mounting.

I have just purchased my first designated "Long Range Rifle", and for it to work summer and winter I'll need to shorten the LOP. Now add in that in my 62 years of rifle hunting, I can't remember even shooting prone when hunting, this is mostly because of snow depth, and tall vegetation in the summer.

But I would like to know what is the average difference for most hunters choice of LOP for shooting Prone or Off-Hand, so I can factor this into my LOP decision.

Thanks for any information on this subject, as I am new to Long Range Hunting.
 
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Canhunter35

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As wild rose stated it has more to do with eye relief. When you set your rifle up, set the scope a little forward to accommodate your prone position shooting. Then hold it standing and you should be near maximum eye relief, just move your head forward and back. Remember to turn it to max power. Lop is really preference and the size of person. I’m 5’8” and like a standard 13 3/4 length, even for prone shooting. If you go too long you take away the bend in your elbow for support and if you go too short it’s hard to get enough eye relief on the scope.
An aside: One advantage of having a bit of scope shadow is you can use it to remove parallax because you Center your eye to the optic
 

AGL4now

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OK......so if I understand correctly "Eye Relief" is more important then being able to reach the trigger. This has not been my experience, especially at kissy'face distance with dangerous game.

I also notice that there is an assumption that "ALL" Long Range Hunting is only done with optic enhanced firearms.
 

Canhunter35

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OK......so if I understand correctly "Eye Relief" is more important then being able to reach the trigger. This has not been my experience, especially at kissy'face distance with dangerous game.

I also notice that there is an assumption that "ALL" Long Range Hunting is only done with optic enhanced firearms.

He stated it’s a long range rifle not a dangerous game rifle. If a person can’t reach the trigger appropriately on a standard lop then obviously the stock needs to be fit to the person better. I’m just saying for the average shooter, the avg lop should be fine.

And yes, my mistake I assumed he would be using a scoped rifle for long range hunting.
 

AGL4now

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I am not trying to be a "Troll", I am questing for some information. Yes.....the manufactures so'called average LOP works fine for me when I am dressed for 80 degree weather assuming no backpack is worn. Try to mount a average LOP while wearing a high quality backpack and I can just touch the "Back" of the trigger. Now add in clothing for -45 degree weather while riding 50 MPH on a snow machine and it is hard to even touch the very back of the trigger guard, let alone the trigger it's self.

Now before I start chopping up a $400.00 stock.....I hope to gather as much information as possible.
 

Canhunter35

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I am not trying to be a "Troll", I am questing for some information. Yes.....the manufactures so'called average LOP works fine for me when I am dressed for 80 degree weather assuming no backpack is worn. Try to mount a average LOP while wearing a high quality backpack and I can just touch the "Back" of the trigger. Now add in clothing for -45 degree weather while riding 50 MPH on a snow machine and it is hard to even touch the very back of the trigger guard, let alone the trigger it's self.

Now before I start chopping up a $400.00 stock.....I hope to gather as much information as possible.

Since your conditions change to the amount of clothing consider an adjustable stock. That way it can be adjusted to the amount of clothing you’re using
 

AGL4now

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Since your conditions change to the amount of clothing consider an adjustable stock. That way it can be adjusted to the amount of clothing you’re using

Well........I have roughly thirty-five rifles with adjustable LOP. This one will NOT have an adjustable LOP.

Still looking forward to learning about the original question of this thread.
 

Bravo 4

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I find that with my dedicated ELR rifle that my LOP is longer by about an inch, due to the fact that it will be shot prone most of its life. The way I square up behind the rifle and want to pull it straight inline with my body makes me want to extend my arm slightly more so than when over sticks or offhand. If I shoot prone with my body cocked to one side then my LOP is slightly shorter. So my ELR and normal/LR hunting rifles are set up different, from LOP to eye relief.
My opinion is that if your shooting conditions go from T-shirt to arctic clothing there is gonna have to be a compromise somewhere, either you or the rifle.
I use a slip on recoil pad when I shoot my daughter’s compact .243, except on really cold days when I have lots of clothing on, and this helps eliminate the LOP/eye relief difference.
 

J E Custom

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How do you choose the LOP so it works fairly well with most shooting positions...???


It is quite simple in my opinion.

If you intend to shoot all positions (Like position matches, with standing, siting and prone, you need an adjustable but plate.

If long range hunting where most shots will be prone, A longer length of pull is needed.

If most shots are offhand, (Standing) shorter length of pull is best.

Average length of pull run from 13.5 to 14" prone rifles are normally 14.5 to 15". Eye relief had a big role in the position that a shooter is shooting from and must be set for the longest eye relief to be safe. (when you move your head forward to get the best image, your neck has most of the slack taken out of it and when the rifle recoils, you head does not move forward and impact the scope. If you have to back your head up to get the eye relief needed, your head can rebound forward and strike the ocular ring causing injury.

When a scope is set up for optimum eye relief in the standing position and you get into a prone position, your head automatically moves closer to the scope so this needs to be accounted for. My prone rifles length of pull is 15.5 and the all position rifles are 14.5 so I may have to adjust to the position. The offhand "Only" are 13.5 to 14".

As I said, the rifles that I have for all positions all have adjustable but plates/recoil pads. so depending on your arm length, you have to decide what is the best all round length (Somewhere in the middle)for you.

Length of pull, drop, offset, cheek well height, style and hand position are all important to get the best out of the rifle and the shooter. so choose wisely.

J E CUSTOM
 

WildRose

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Specifically I am asking about the LOP differences for different shooting positions. Lets pretend you are at a custom stock builder, and they have a "Master Fitter" who will fit you for the perfect stock fit for shooting "Prone".

You get that stock and it is "Perfect" for shooting Prone position. You are so happy, that you go back and ask to be fitted for a custom stock for a rifle that you will only ever shoot from either at bench or shoot "Off Hand" position. You receive this stock and it is "Perfect".

Question: when you measure the LOP of each......will they be exactly the same....???

If one is shorter, which one is shorter......and roughly by how much shorter...???

If we repeated this for ten thousand men, what would the "Average" discovered distance be, for overall variance for most men....for those two shooting positions....???

I have lived in Alaska for 48 of the 71 years of my life. Early on I learned that the perfect LOP for summer dress is much longer then what works when wearing several inches of arctic clothing in the winter. So I have summer rifles and winter rifles. I also have PH rifles that are LOP half way between Summer and/or Winter LOP, but they have a very-very rounded "Heel" for quick snag-free mounting.

I have just purchased my first designated "Long Range Rifle", and for it to work summer and winter I'll need to shorten the LOP. Now add in that in my 62 years of rifle hunting, I can't remember even shooting prone when hunting, this is mostly because of snow depth, and tall vegetation in the summer.

But I would like to know what is the average difference for most hunters choice of LOP for shooting Prone or Off-Hand, so I can factor this into my LOP decision.

Thanks for any information on this subject, as I am new to Long Range Hunting.
No rifle without an adjustable stock will be perfect for every position, it's just not physically possible.

The best is whatever length works best for you in all positions or an adjustable stock.

I've got shorter than normal arms, heavy muscling and get along fine with factory length stocks.

If you are working with a custom shop they should have stocks of different lengths around you can try in all of the positions you are likely to shoot from for you try. Try as many as you can one way or another even if you have to take a tape measurer and visit pawn shops and gun shops with long racks full of rifles you can try on for size.

Either that, go with factory length and learn to shoot it in all positions.

Again, getting proper eye relief correct has always proven to be more important than length for me. Ensuring the scope height is right would be a real close second. If you can't get low enough without working at it to pick up a quick sight picture or conversely find yourself goosenecking reaching to find the same picture you're probably going to have far more problems than you otherwise would over stock length.
 

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