Case polishing and annealing?

[MagnumManiac]

Thats good info. I'm not surprised manufacturers vary in their annealing process but my only point was new (unfired) ammo or brass isn't work hardended from fireforming.
I was actually more curious how softer upper case bodies raises pressure?

A question for you:
How much does running a mandrel, or neck sizer then mandrel, change neck hardness due to work hardening, or seating a bullet with an additional .0015-.002"?
Most believe that this isn't something to take into consideration as they believe work hardening only happens over time if not addressed. I do not believe this to be true because I can measure seating resistance with new untouched brass, then measure a case that has had the above steps done and note a difference, just as Eric Cortina's tests have also shown. Any brass movement one way, then the other way at ANY time will cause work hardening…

Cheers.

 

[Koda_]

A question for you:
How much does running a mandrel, or neck sizer then mandrel, change neck hardness due to work hardening, or seating a bullet with an additional .0015-.002"?
Most believe that this isn't something to take into consideration as they believe work hardening only happens over time if not addressed. I do not believe this to be true because I can measure seating resistance with new untouched brass, then measure a case that has had the above steps done and note a difference, just as Eric Cortina's tests have also shown. Any brass movement one way, then the other way at ANY time will cause work hardening…

Cheers.

to answer your question I don't know because I don't have a way to measure case hardness. I can however speculate, and I agree that running a mandrel thru a neck would contribute to work hardening... that only makes sense.
I would have to question what the hardness difference is between an annealed case thats sized (mandrel) vs a case thats hasn't been annealed after fireforming and sized the same way, vs a case that hasn't been annealed after several fireformings? I would also have to ask what the average hardness of a case thats annealed every firing and sized over several firings, vs a case that hasn't been annealed after the same amount of firings.
My guess is the annealed case is more consistent hardness over time and the unannealed case gets harder over each shot but slows down after the first. I would also guess the unannealed also isn't something worth taking into consideration but it would be interesting to see the measurements none the less.

My take is it doesn't matter as long as the handloader is consistent in his choice of method. Case life not withstanding.

 

[Beluebow]

So if your results are good, then you want to repeat that of course.
Still doesn't mean that annealing causes or gets you to good results.
It can be detrimental to results.

Don't forget that annealing causes softer brass, and that ain't free.
Softer necks means lower tension. Changing neck friction affects seating forces. Softer upper case bodies raises pressure.
Not all cartridges and loads like this.

Wouldn't surprise me if you could do as well, or better, without excessive annealing.

If annealing can be detrimental to results then it can have a positive effect as well.

In my reloading program annealing every firing is a positive not a negative.

 

[Hydra6]

1) Dry tumble brass after shooting. Have used corn and walnut - was using the walnut bedding material from pet store. Moved to the rice as media method as described by Orkan.
2) Anneal hunting and PRS brass after every shooting. Do not anneal bulk 223.

 

[Mikecr]

If annealing can be detrimental to results then it can have a positive effect as well.

That's true. I have nothing against frequent annealing, but I suspect a lot of reloaders get the impression that there is an improvement -for sure.
I don't want soft brass. I want the hardest brass I can get. Then with minimal clearances and sizing, it stabilizes & lasts forever.
MY best die is my chamber, which my hard brass springs back from.

On pressure raising:
You may notice that new brass produces lower MV with a given load than fully fire formed.
This is because new brass expansion acts to limit peak pressure, where fully formed goes right where it's been(against chamber walls) quicker , absorbing less energy. While this may seem counter intuitive, the fact is: even hard brass wants to go where it's been.
Softer brass expands even easier than stretched hard brass, absorbing even less energy from peak pressure.
This in itself is not a problem, but a difference, and once you choose and develop with that difference, you're a slave to it.
Hopefully everything around that works out for you.

It doesn't actually work best for everyone.
Try convincing this guy that he should anneal:

Sunday GunDay: Amazing Record-Setting 6 BRA 1000-Yard Rifle « Daily Bulletin

Kulzer Sets Eight IBS 1000-Yard IBS Benchrest Records with 6 BRA Rifle Report by Alex Wheeler In 2021, Glenn Kulzer of Dillon, Montana had a season that will go down in 1000-Yard Benchrest history. Glenn set eight IBS records in 2021 at the Deep Creek range in Missoula, and then was named IBS 1K...

bulletin.accurateshooter.com

 

[Barrelnut]

That's true. I have nothing against frequent annealing, but I suspect a lot of reloaders get the impression that there is an improvement -for sure.
I don't want soft brass. I want the hardest brass I can get. Then with minimal clearances and sizing, it stabilizes & lasts forever.
MY best die is my chamber, which my hard brass springs back from.

On pressure raising:
You may notice that new brass produces lower MV with a given load than fully fire formed.
This is because new brass expansion acts to limit peak pressure, where fully formed goes right where it's been(against chamber walls) quicker , absorbing less energy. While this may seem counter intuitive, the fact is: even hard brass wants to go where it's been.
Softer brass expands even easier than stretched hard brass, absorbing even less energy from peak pressure.
This in itself is not a problem, but a difference, and once you choose and develop with that difference, you're a slave to it.
Hopefully everything around that works out for you.

It doesn't actually work best for everyone.
Try convincing this guy that he should anneal:

Sunday GunDay: Amazing Record-Setting 6 BRA 1000-Yard Rifle « Daily Bulletin

Kulzer Sets Eight IBS 1000-Yard IBS Benchrest Records with 6 BRA Rifle Report by Alex Wheeler In 2021, Glenn Kulzer of Dillon, Montana had a season that will go down in 1000-Yard Benchrest history. Glenn set eight IBS records in 2021 at the Deep Creek range in Missoula, and then was named IBS 1K...

bulletin.accurateshooter.com

That Glenn Kulzer article was a good read.
As far as his lack of annealing, I would say that he's running a match chamber with a tight neck, matched to Alpha brass specs. So the necks don't get a lot of work. He mentions that Alex Wheeler built the rifle. So I'm assuming it's a special reamer and the dies were probably cut from that same reamer.
Most hunters are probably using SAAMI spec chambers so there's a lot more room for the necks to expand and work harden. So frequent annealing might be beneficial.

 

[MagnumManiac]

@Koda_
This is my point…
I learned that if I anneal my precision and comp brass, then do the above steps, I have consistent brass necks. If I anneal after these steps, I get funky brass. What is the difference?

Cheers.