I realize that the answer will be very dependent on the condition of the brass (how often fired & annealed), but I'll try anyway. Should sized brass have bullets seated in it right away? If you were to size your brass and then put it aside for a few hours or days before seating, would you ideally use a different size expander or even re-expand it just before seating?
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Brass Spring Back
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J E Custom
Well-Known Member
In my opinion , NO.
Once the brass leaves the dies it should remain the same size as long as you don't anneal after sizing.
I like to anneal after 2 or 3 firings depending on the intensity of the round and then size the brass
for best fit and most consistent bullet tension.
J E CUSTOM
g0rd0
Well-Known Member
I gang size and store sometimes for months before I prime, powder and seat.
I have never had any issue or problems seating my loads
I have never had any issue or problems seating my loads
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
Contrary to responses so far, brass does continue to counter last sizing action over time. And it's not just necks, but everywhere sized, including shoulder bumps and body(even primers back out a bit over time).
I don't normally size ammo until I intend to load it, and with a plan to use it within a week or two at most. Otherwise my neck tension and MV would be higher than load developed for.
You could probably adjust for expected changes for longer term ammo. It's easy enough to test and measure lots of sized brass, to see the changes and the effectiveness of your adjustments.
I don't normally size ammo until I intend to load it, and with a plan to use it within a week or two at most. Otherwise my neck tension and MV would be higher than load developed for.
You could probably adjust for expected changes for longer term ammo. It's easy enough to test and measure lots of sized brass, to see the changes and the effectiveness of your adjustments.
SidecarFlip
Well-Known Member
Don't want to start an argument but, the crystalline structure of brass only changes with heat and not the heat of ignition because brass (like softer and more malleable copper) is a good conductor of heat, passing the heat of ignition passively to the chamber walls.
The only time the crystalline structure is altered is when annealing and why it's so important to anneal with control (dwell time and temperature) and cool immediately (the main reason I would never practice the heat and tip over in the pan method or the spin in a drill and drop methods because you can't accurately control heating and dwell time manually.
As the brass ages, that is, sits around for an extended time, it may surface oxidize (loose it's shine) but the crystalline structure remains inert and unmoving at normal temperatures (below 500 degrees (f). If any relaxation were to occur (and it should not), it would be so minute that it would be unnoticeable. Far as primers backing out, that has nothing to do with case hardness and everything to do with prep.
if that were the case (changing metallurgy with age), none of the brass manufacturers would be able to offer quality brass for reloading.
I have to side with JE Custom on this one and.....
I'm in the metals business with a QS/ISO company btw.
I've bought brass in bags/boxes of 50-100. Took them out, resized them all, trimmed them all, deburred the flashole in all, and then worked up loads with however many cases it took. Then, once a good load was found, I'd load up 50 and the rest would remain back in the box/bag, primed, ready to load, even if it was years later. I've never witnessed anything remarkable from the original loads the the latest, even if it was 3-5 years later other than surface sheen had diminished. They shot the same as the original loads so long as I still used powder from the same jug.
I'm not an expert by any stretch. I have no way of telling if my drill held annealing technique is less effective than using a machine but that's the only way I do it. Drill spins same rpm each brass and time is always about 6-7 seconds. No quenching. Seems to work for me.
I'm not an expert by any stretch. I have no way of telling if my drill held annealing technique is less effective than using a machine but that's the only way I do it. Drill spins same rpm each brass and time is always about 6-7 seconds. No quenching. Seems to work for me.
SidecarFlip
Well-Known Member
Derek...
It's all about repeatability and consistency. Look at it this way. You can make a part on a manual machine at the same level of accuracy and tolerances but it takes exponentially longer than using a CNC machine (so long as the CNC machine or the manual machine will hold the desired tolerance in the first place).
It's difficult to get consistency when you introduce the human factor.
If heat treating (which is what annealing is, that is, altering the grain structure of the brass, basically aligning the grain structure) any metal was consistent in a manual operation, commercial heat treaters would do it manually. They don't. They use digitally controlled heat sources and conveyance mechanisms to achieve consistency.
Of course most heat treating involves controlled atmospheres as well but heat treating steel produces oxidation, much like the discoloration of the brass that we all equate to it being 'annealed'.
A machine lie the Bench Source or the Gerauld, 'index' the case in the flame for a preset amount of time, that preset is of course a tighter tolerance than you can achieve, plus, they index the case in exactly the same position in respect to the flame every time as well. Thats consistency in annealing.
I realize the hand method is much less expensive but you cannot obtain the consistent indexing the machines can and that is what you pay for, consistency.
There is a fine line between 'properly annealed' and too soft. I don't want to explore the 'too soft' side of that line.
It's all about repeatability and consistency. Look at it this way. You can make a part on a manual machine at the same level of accuracy and tolerances but it takes exponentially longer than using a CNC machine (so long as the CNC machine or the manual machine will hold the desired tolerance in the first place).
It's difficult to get consistency when you introduce the human factor.
If heat treating (which is what annealing is, that is, altering the grain structure of the brass, basically aligning the grain structure) any metal was consistent in a manual operation, commercial heat treaters would do it manually. They don't. They use digitally controlled heat sources and conveyance mechanisms to achieve consistency.
Of course most heat treating involves controlled atmospheres as well but heat treating steel produces oxidation, much like the discoloration of the brass that we all equate to it being 'annealed'.
A machine lie the Bench Source or the Gerauld, 'index' the case in the flame for a preset amount of time, that preset is of course a tighter tolerance than you can achieve, plus, they index the case in exactly the same position in respect to the flame every time as well. Thats consistency in annealing.
I realize the hand method is much less expensive but you cannot obtain the consistent indexing the machines can and that is what you pay for, consistency.
There is a fine line between 'properly annealed' and too soft. I don't want to explore the 'too soft' side of that line.
