Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
It is louder at the shooter's position and to the sides of the shooter. Not louder in general. It is probably quieter down range because much of the blast has been diverted to the sides and rearward.
Brake Question?
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It is louder at the shooter's position and to the sides of the shooter. Not louder in general. It is probably quieter down range because much of the blast has been diverted to the sides and rearward.
ntsqd
Well-Known Member
Hasn't happened yet, but I've a project .22LR slated to be Mag-N-Ported. That count?Ok. So I am not the only one that has placed a muzzle brake on a 22.
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J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Being in the military I can assure you that out in front of the muzzle (Not directly in front
) the sound is much worst. We moved the DB meter to the front of the rifle and it freaked out (Could have been the shock wave and the muzzle blast) but we couldn't get a good reading.J E CUSTOM
nicholasjohn
Well-Known Member
Seems like nobody talks much about stock how fit affects felt recoil anymore. I'm glad you brought it up, because it is an important component in an equation that has more variables in it than are immediately obvious.
I had a discussion with an old gent many years ago, who built me a couple of rifles. He explained to me that the reason I get pounded by the average out-of-the-box factory rifle is because I have arms like chimp. ( Yes, that is how he phrased it, and we both laughed.) I also have a rather skinny chest, so when I shoulder a rifle with a typical length of pull, my elbows are bent at a very acute angle. This puts my arm muscles at a leverage disadvantage, which makes it difficult to absorb much recoil with my hands. That puts it all on my face & shoulder.
I also have a very skinny face, and when my cheek is held down firmly against the comb, I'm looking right into the aft end of the cocking piece on the bolt. So, I have to raise my head slightly to get a sight picture, which gives the gun a running start when it hits my face. NO GOOD.
So, my rifles are built longer, straighter, and higher in the comb than what you would expect for a skinny, 5'8" shooter - and, they work great for me. I have also changed out the recoil pads for some that are made of the newer, high-tech materials that really do reduce felt recoil more than the older pads. I haven't needed to install brakes, but that would certainly tame them down even further.
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
Being in the military I can assure you that out in front of the muzzle (Not directly in front
J E CUSTOM
You may have missed my point/question. Here is the question:
If you sat at the 100yd line with a DB meter and a round was fired in your direction with no brake and then again with a brake; would one be louder then the other?
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
I under stand your point, but the distance would diminish the volume of any sound. If you placed a DB meter inches from the muzzle the DB volume would be louder, If you moved it 3 feet away it would be lower. I doubt that the DB meter would give you any difference in sound levels
at 100 yards with or without a brake.
Having worked in the pits at rifle matches from 200 yards to 1000 yards I could not tell if one rifle was louder that the other even when shooting Magnums or 308 s. They had a different tone but distance had taken away any comparison. In truth, I can't answer that question because I don't believe that a muzzle brake can cancel out sound or increase sound, only redirect it.
This is the reason we placed it just behind the shooters head to try and measure what he was receiving And never moved it so we could get a meaningful comparison. it will read differently If you move to different locations. When you run a test, you should only change only the thing you are testing and leave everything the same or you wont get a good comparison of what the change made.
In our testing, we decided to Video all of the test so there could be no mistake that the test was not skewed. (Like so many test I have seen).
So you are right that the sound would be different at the muzzle as apposed to 100 yards away, But we were trying to prove or disprove whether a muzzle braked rifle was louder than an unbaked rifle. The conclusion from the test was that it was not louder, But the perceived
sound was louder with the brake.
By the way, for many years I believed many things that I had heard and
wanted no part of muzzle brakes. Once we started testing different things that I thought had to be correct, I put many wives tails and many of my beliefs to rest and stopped listening to people and set out to prove one way or the other if they were true. I can only satisfy my my thinking by honest testing. If I altered a test to predict the outcome some may not notice, But I would know and get no satisfaction using a altered test.
Just like recoil, there is perceived recoil and there is actual recoil.
Sorry about the long winded post but it was a good question and I needed to give you my opinion and the facts as I know them.
J E CUSTOM
zb338
Well-Known Member
zb338
Well-Known Member
I was in the Army towards the end of the Korean war. We shot every weapon
you could think of and never used ear protection. When I got stationed I shot
on a U.S. Army pistol team for a year before I was discharged. Do I have
tinnitus? I wear plugs and muffs now days, too little too late.
Zeke
you could think of and never used ear protection. When I got stationed I shot
on a U.S. Army pistol team for a year before I was discharged. Do I have
tinnitus? I wear plugs and muffs now days, too little too late.
Zeke
ircraf
I spent 10 years in the flightline (where dBs are easily 120+) aicraft maintenance and generation for 10-12 hour days and safety is one of my better habits. Back then, ear protection comes in a form of a foamie + regular head set type ear protector. Today, I still wear gloves, eye and ear protection when I operate household tools and machineries like mower, chainsaw, power saw, electric drill, etc ...
I spent 10 years in the flightline (where dBs are easily 120+) aicraft maintenance and generation for 10-12 hour days and safety is one of my better habits. Back then, ear protection comes in a form of a foamie + regular head set type ear protector. Today, I still wear gloves, eye and ear protection when I operate household tools and machineries like mower, chainsaw, power saw, electric drill, etc ...
Hand Skills
Well-Known Member
Here is an interesting article on muzzle brakes and sound;
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/08/07/muzzle-brakes-sound-test/
10x the sound energy for 1/2 the recoil energy seems like a poor tradeoff for the hunter who plays battle of the senses and stalks their prey.
On the other hand, if one prefers the ambush game plan, it's easy to pop in some earplugs while getting setup.
I understand in some parts of the world suppressors are a common item and shooting suppressed can even be considered a respectful, sportsmanlike thing to do.
Electronic hearing protection is pretty cool as well. If one is amenable to the idea, I highly recommend checking some out.
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/08/07/muzzle-brakes-sound-test/
10x the sound energy for 1/2 the recoil energy seems like a poor tradeoff for the hunter who plays battle of the senses and stalks their prey.
On the other hand, if one prefers the ambush game plan, it's easy to pop in some earplugs while getting setup.
I understand in some parts of the world suppressors are a common item and shooting suppressed can even be considered a respectful, sportsmanlike thing to do.
Electronic hearing protection is pretty cool as well. If one is amenable to the idea, I highly recommend checking some out.
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Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
JE - thank you for all of your thoughtful incite and willingness to share here on LRH.
I use brakes on the big magnums for only one reason, personal safety. I never minded the big guns kicking my 150lb frame around. But … when the ocular lens brushes your eyebrow one too many times you realize that sooner or later you're going to take a bad hit.
I carried a set of headphones around on my arm when hunting moose in Newfoundland. I was hunting with a braked 338 RUM and figured that I'd just throw the muffs on when I encountered an animal that I intended to shoot. Naturally, when a big bull first came into view I was so preoccupied with getting set up for the shot that the thought of hearing protection never entered my mind.
It was a bang-flop but the blast from that rifle will never be forgotten. It just added to my diminishing ability to hear things the way I did 20 years ago.
Since then I have moved away from the "bigger-is-better" notion when selecting a hunting cartridge. Although I have many hunting rifles, my primary use rifle is an unbraked 7WSM. With a properly chosen premium hunting bullet and good shot placement most of my needs will be covered. And yes - I bought a Creedmoor for dragon slaying should the season open up again.
I use brakes on the big magnums for only one reason, personal safety. I never minded the big guns kicking my 150lb frame around. But … when the ocular lens brushes your eyebrow one too many times you realize that sooner or later you're going to take a bad hit.
I carried a set of headphones around on my arm when hunting moose in Newfoundland. I was hunting with a braked 338 RUM and figured that I'd just throw the muffs on when I encountered an animal that I intended to shoot. Naturally, when a big bull first came into view I was so preoccupied with getting set up for the shot that the thought of hearing protection never entered my mind.
It was a bang-flop but the blast from that rifle will never be forgotten. It just added to my diminishing ability to hear things the way I did 20 years ago.
Since then I have moved away from the "bigger-is-better" notion when selecting a hunting cartridge. Although I have many hunting rifles, my primary use rifle is an unbraked 7WSM. With a properly chosen premium hunting bullet and good shot placement most of my needs will be covered. And yes - I bought a Creedmoor for dragon slaying should the season open up again.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
I am fortunate to have been trained to use hearing protection and eye protection like FEENIX while in the service and never considered a muzzle brake once they came out. I knew from a few bad experiences
with neglecting my training to use hearing protection that it was needed with any loud noise, especially with firearms. I have some hearing loss but not bad for my age and I contribute this to protecting my hearing.
Like most, I never liked hunting with any hearing protection but did any way, for years I used ear plugs and worked out how to use them and still hear. I would install one in my right ear (Because it was hard to quickly place in the ear next to the rifle and hold the left ear plug in my left hand for quick placement. This worked very well and then I found the electronic hearing protection. I don't like the ear muffs because they interfere with the cheek well placement so I use the ear plug type. they not only crop the noise, they help to hear even better. The best of both worlds. I even started using them for bow hunting because of being able to hear foot steps and other slight sounds. I don't know how small of a rifle you have to go to save your hearing, but I would think any high pressure/power cartridge could hurt your ears.
I hear well and don't wear glasses at 78 so the protection has worked.
J E CUSTOM
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Rich Coyle
Well-Known Member
J E Custom,
You are fortunate to have good genes. My mom lost her hearing as she aged and never was around guns or machinery. I apparently took after her. Like you I used hearing protection since I started shooting at age thirty. At seventy-five my hearing is terrible. And like you I use electronics. The only way to be modern.
You are fortunate to have good genes. My mom lost her hearing as she aged and never was around guns or machinery. I apparently took after her. Like you I used hearing protection since I started shooting at age thirty. At seventy-five my hearing is terrible. And like you I use electronics. The only way to be modern.
I envy your eyesight. Sometimes we forget about the accumulation and prolonged exposure with high dB noises (not just at the range or hunting). When I transition from F-4s to A-10s, my hearing got better. Nearly a year after leaving the flightline, my hearing improved closed to my pre-flighline days and I attribute it to good safety habits using personal protection equipment.
