Berger VLD's, not impressed so far.

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Tyler Kemp, Jul 23, 2008.

  1. Tyler Kemp

    Tyler Kemp SPONSOR

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    Well I shot some 95 grain VLD's with IMR 4831from 47-49 grains today. Expecting great results...instead-
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    Shot off sandbags, just kissing the lands. The 48 grain group was shot by a benchrest shooter, so it must not be all me. I loaded up 22 shells with 49 grains IMR 4831, 6 .005 off the lands, 8 just on the lands, and 8 .005 in the lands. Hopefully something good happens.
     
  2. tjonh2001

    tjonh2001 Well-Known Member

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    i shoot bergers through 3 different guns and they like to be seated deap into the lands. i can feel the bullet hitting the lands when i am closing the bolt. you need to get them in there....mine are .010 to .020 start short and lengthen them till it hits right...
     
  3. Tyler Kemp

    Tyler Kemp SPONSOR

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    Do you have to reduce loads from just touching the lands to .01 or .02 in?
     
  4. remingtonman_25_06

    remingtonman_25_06 Well-Known Member

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    looks like a seating depth issue to me...I notice your getting 2 shots in and 1 out on most your groups. Tall tale sign to change seating depth. They'll probly tighten up quite a bit if you go in the lands .005"-.010"
     
  5. Derek M.

    Derek M. Well-Known Member

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    The VLDs I've tried have been impressive.
     
  6. LRHWAL

    LRHWAL Well-Known Member

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    What distance?

    At 100m some of my 210VLD's shot 1 MOA to a little larger, with the odd 1/2 MOA thrown in. Same ones went to 1/2 MOA pretty consistently at 200m. Some say 300m is even better.

    There's a good discussion on the whole "bullet going to sleep" effect/theory (depending on your point of view) elsewhere on the site. I struggled (still do a little) to understand the scientific basis for it, but I have experienced the results first hand.

    Stretch her legs and look again.
     
  7. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    I shoot quite a few Bergers my self and agree with this 100%. 100 yards does not tell me much, I like to see what they do at 200 or 300.

    JMO,

    Jeff
     
  8. Cruizin

    Cruizin Well-Known Member

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    This is my experience... I don't know about you but I've never been able to shoot very well off sand bags unless the rifle is nice and heavy. I went out and bought a nice Caldwell Rock BR front rest and my group was noticably smaller. Also there is alot to be said about a good rear bag as well. When I shoot from a bipod most of my groups open up to .75" when they are .5" off a good rest.


    Now the lead sleds are really stable and I believe they are illegal in BR shooting probably for that one reason. Isn't that correct?
     
  9. Cruizin

    Cruizin Well-Known Member

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    On another note I've heard that berger has new tooling that allows them to make more consistent bullets. I've heard the bearing surface of the bullets doesn't vary as much as they used to. This plays a noticable role when shooting at distance because the BC will vary. With the smk's I measure the bearing surface and sort by increments of .001. I have found that the SMK's vary alot and I sure wish Sierra would follow Bergers lead. In fact I'm building a 7mm wsm right now so I can shoot the 180 gr berger 7mm bullet.

    Good Luck
     
  10. Tyler Kemp

    Tyler Kemp SPONSOR

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    I guess I'll try off a lead sled @ 200 yards. I have some loaded up at .005" off, right on, and .005" in the lands. I'll pull the .005" off bullets so I can test a bit further into the lands.
     
  11. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    For what it's worth, I have a 30-378 wby with a 32" HS Percision pipe. It has a long free bore and I load as long as the mag box will allow (3.800") still a good deal off the lands, I think about .150". Anyway I was shooting a 14" target at 1000 last weekend 3 consecutive hits in gusting wind with 210 VLD's @ 3130 fps. My point is I think you will be pleased when you get them dialed in.

    Jeff
     
  12. Merlin

    Merlin Well-Known Member

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    If it's worth anything I have a .243 that will not shoot the 95s either. I have tried every powder primer seating combo I could come up with, the gun just did not like them. All my other rifles shoot them really good .5 moa or better if i do my part. I just went back to ballistic tips for ground hogs and coyotes.
     
  13. NesikaChad

    NesikaChad Well-Known Member

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    Bergers. . .

    Being a highpower shooter (NRA SR) I've loaded quite a few Bergers.

    I learned the process from my best friend; CWO David Karcher, the 2002 National SR champion from the USMCR shooting team.

    Here's what he showed me that has worked well.

    VLD bullets have a long ogive and a short bearing surface when compared to non VLD bullets.

    So, you gotta jam them buggers into the bore so that you know they sit concentric. The other reason is the shorter bearing surface means it takes less initial pressure to get them moving down the bore.

    Ever play with neck tension when loading? Sometimes higher neck tension makes a gun shoot better because of the higher pressure developed before the case "sneezes" the bullet into the bore. Same sort of idea here only your doing it by getting a bigger initial bite into the bore.

    .005" seemed to work well for .223 stuff.

    The load is something like this: (.223 Remington) 7.5 rem SR primer, CCI BR's work too. Lapua brass with all the widgits done to it (short of neck turning) and then stoke it up with either Varget or N-140.

    I'm guessing your shooting something in 6mm. 243 maybe?

    Dave would run his stuff quite hot in order to get the velocity up on that short 20" barrel. (again, talking 223) If you go this route, you won't get many reloads because the primer pockets will swell. Maybe two/three at best and that is being optimistic.

    You gotta have the right twist rate on the barrel or all bets are off. Long bullets gotta spin hard to stabilize. VLD's are no exception, in fact they are even more dependent on it.

    Don't get discouraged, just fuss with them some more and they should come around. Also, not all guns will shoot Bergers due to the reamer used. If the throat length/angle is funky, then you may not ever get them to work. If that fails, maybe try the Lapua Scenar bullets. My 6mm BR 300m international rifle loves em.

    Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2008
  14. Tyler Kemp

    Tyler Kemp SPONSOR

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    I'm shooting a 6mm Ackley, 1-10" twist. No signs of the bullet not being stabilized. 105 grain Amaxes stabilize as well, but groups are about the same.