Unofficial Gun Addict (UGA)
Well-Known Member
Heya all... Although I am a new member to the forum, I've visited 100's of times over the years to find and review information others users have posted regarding reloading, hunting, and long range shooting.
What has me inspired to create my first post here? Well... VLD hunting bullets.
I recently met with a Berger rep and we had a long conversation about the VLD line, specifically their hunting bullets. I was intrigued by this bullet, which is why the conversation started in the first place and after about 45 minutes of what I considered a quality conversation with a thoroughly knowledgable Berger rep. I didn't want to purchase the 1st Edition manual, as the new manual was supposed to be due out late spring to early summer, so the rep informed me that using Hodgdon's reload data for Sierra's 168 HPBT would equally apply to the VLD 168gr hunting bullets as I informed him that I would be using Varget as my powder choice. So, I bit the bullet so to speak and purchased a 1000 unit box of VLD hunting 168 grain bullets.
RANT... Hodgdon's data clearly states that for a 308 cartridge with a COL of 2.800, the min load is 42gr and the max is 46gr compressed. So... I started working up some loads last night... Full-resized... Neck trimmed... The works. Set charges from 42gr up to 45.5gr and began seating. Things were fine up to 44gr, but once I got to 44.5gr, bullets started sticking in my Forster Ultra seating die. Tapping the die didn't do the job... I had to disassemble the die to get the bullets out of the seating stem. Pulling them out of the stem with my fingers wasn't even an option, they were stuck with some serious force. I would get 1 or 2 rounds to go... And then another stuck bullet. (Before you ask... Yes my seating stem has been polished). So I stepped back, and took some measurements, powder depth from the mouth, length of bullet, depth of previously seated bullets and found that my loads at 44gr were compressed, as well as any above this value. So I stopped and called Berger support this morning. The support guy gave me the speech about seating off the lands. Well... I've read that here in this forum as well as numerous others. As I explained to the guy on the other end of the line... I've got magazines in both my Tikka T3 Tactical 308 and Browning Abolt 300 win mag that conform very closely to SAAMI standards. At this point the guy tells me, "There's NO WAY you can load these to the length parameters of your mags and a COL of 2.800... it's not even a remote possibility with these bullets". He then dives into the whole loading long/jump and lands procedure for these bullets. I stopped him at this point and said, "So basically, if I want to hunt with these bullets for deer or elk, which i intended to do, I've basically got to turn my bolt action rifles into single shot rifles", to which he answered, "Yes... That is the case".
I hung up which I have never done before except on my ex-wife
If I wanted to hunt with a single shot, I wouldn't have sold my Ruger No 1. A bolt action rifle ensures a fairly quick follow-up shot if required which is why I choose that platform, however, the idea of fumbling about with gloved hands during the critical moments of a hunt to single feed a bullet that can only be loaded long, isn't my idea of a hunting bullet, but a range/target round. I have dropped deer in their tracks with my first round a number of times over my 40 years of hunting, but I've also had to take a follow up shot for perfectly placed first shots that somehow defy explanation as to how the animal could have moved at all... Especially on elk. They are hardy creatures with a strong will to live, and a second bullet in the chamber, ready to go is in my opinion, a prudent choice for any hunter of these big game animals.
If you choose VLDs for hunting in the 308 platform, be prepared to load long and singly. These will be the last VLDs to occupy my reloading bench. Just saying.
End rant.... Wow... Thanks guys... Nice to get that off my chest.
James
What has me inspired to create my first post here? Well... VLD hunting bullets.
I recently met with a Berger rep and we had a long conversation about the VLD line, specifically their hunting bullets. I was intrigued by this bullet, which is why the conversation started in the first place and after about 45 minutes of what I considered a quality conversation with a thoroughly knowledgable Berger rep. I didn't want to purchase the 1st Edition manual, as the new manual was supposed to be due out late spring to early summer, so the rep informed me that using Hodgdon's reload data for Sierra's 168 HPBT would equally apply to the VLD 168gr hunting bullets as I informed him that I would be using Varget as my powder choice. So, I bit the bullet so to speak and purchased a 1000 unit box of VLD hunting 168 grain bullets.
RANT... Hodgdon's data clearly states that for a 308 cartridge with a COL of 2.800, the min load is 42gr and the max is 46gr compressed. So... I started working up some loads last night... Full-resized... Neck trimmed... The works. Set charges from 42gr up to 45.5gr and began seating. Things were fine up to 44gr, but once I got to 44.5gr, bullets started sticking in my Forster Ultra seating die. Tapping the die didn't do the job... I had to disassemble the die to get the bullets out of the seating stem. Pulling them out of the stem with my fingers wasn't even an option, they were stuck with some serious force. I would get 1 or 2 rounds to go... And then another stuck bullet. (Before you ask... Yes my seating stem has been polished). So I stepped back, and took some measurements, powder depth from the mouth, length of bullet, depth of previously seated bullets and found that my loads at 44gr were compressed, as well as any above this value. So I stopped and called Berger support this morning. The support guy gave me the speech about seating off the lands. Well... I've read that here in this forum as well as numerous others. As I explained to the guy on the other end of the line... I've got magazines in both my Tikka T3 Tactical 308 and Browning Abolt 300 win mag that conform very closely to SAAMI standards. At this point the guy tells me, "There's NO WAY you can load these to the length parameters of your mags and a COL of 2.800... it's not even a remote possibility with these bullets". He then dives into the whole loading long/jump and lands procedure for these bullets. I stopped him at this point and said, "So basically, if I want to hunt with these bullets for deer or elk, which i intended to do, I've basically got to turn my bolt action rifles into single shot rifles", to which he answered, "Yes... That is the case".
I hung up which I have never done before except on my ex-wife
If I wanted to hunt with a single shot, I wouldn't have sold my Ruger No 1. A bolt action rifle ensures a fairly quick follow-up shot if required which is why I choose that platform, however, the idea of fumbling about with gloved hands during the critical moments of a hunt to single feed a bullet that can only be loaded long, isn't my idea of a hunting bullet, but a range/target round. I have dropped deer in their tracks with my first round a number of times over my 40 years of hunting, but I've also had to take a follow up shot for perfectly placed first shots that somehow defy explanation as to how the animal could have moved at all... Especially on elk. They are hardy creatures with a strong will to live, and a second bullet in the chamber, ready to go is in my opinion, a prudent choice for any hunter of these big game animals.If you choose VLDs for hunting in the 308 platform, be prepared to load long and singly. These will be the last VLDs to occupy my reloading bench. Just saying.
End rant.... Wow... Thanks guys... Nice to get that off my chest.
James
