Barrel Life Of My 25-06

[9ptbuk]

I read alot about people having to replace the barrels on their 25-06 rifles and was wondering how many shots I could possibly get out of my 700 LR shooting book loads ? Best and worst case scenario . I know there's ALOT of variables involved and nothing is set in stone . I appreciate anyone's input. Thanks

 

[PGJPJ]

If I were to put together a guess, I'd say about 2000 rounds.

But that's not the important thing. Worrying about barrel life used to keep me up at night, until I had a factory barrel replaced with a match grade one. The experience was liberating . I put about 2000 rounds through my 270 win, and it was no where near to starting to fade. I just wanted to convert it to a 280ai.

It's just not as big a deal as I was making it out to be. And in the end, you end up with a better rifle then you started.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I would agree with the above... No way to give a definitive answer or really even an accurate estimate on barrel life...WAY too many factors involved. Example, most people say the 7mmSTW has a low barrel life, I have over 750 rounds on one of mine, and accurate has yet to fade at all. Still a tack-driver that puts 5 rounds inside of 1 hole the size of a dime at 100.

Also, keep in-mind that barrels are the expendable part of a rifle. They are made to be remove and replaced when worn-out.

You have a great platform for when you get ready to rebarrel. For now, I'd just worry about load development and once you find a good shooting load, keep at it till it starts consistently throwing shots. Then have it scoped by a gunsmith. It might just be copper buildup and need a good scrubbing. Or the throat could be fire-cracked and the rifling shot-out of it. Never know till it gets scoped by a competent smith.

When you do rebarrel, I'd go .25-06 AI with a 26" Bartlein or Proof Research barrel in Sendero/Rem Varmint contour. Or possible a .280 AI cut with to the SAAMI/Nosler specs.

 

[Rick Richard]

If correct precautions are taking such as ensuring the barrel is not overheated when firing and maintaining safe loads, then I doubt you will ever have to replace the barrel.
For the average or occasional shooter, they will never come close to shooting out a barrel.

 

[AZShooter]

I agree that you should get at least 2000 or perhaps 2500 or more. It depends on if you can tolerate the cleaning that an older barrel requires. Eventually the barrel will only shoot a few good shots then open up.

I had a Bartlein 6mm-284 that lasted 1100 rounds. First symptoms of it getting tired were groups opening up with less than 30 rounds fired. The bore scope showed cracks and crazing over 15 inches up the bore! It took longer to clean out the fouling especially the copper fouling. In fact I would soak Bore Tech in it for days to get it clean. It would require a few foulers then shoot accurately. Eventually it would shoot under ten shots accurately after the foulers and then become inaccurate. It wasn't worth the effort for such a short time shooting. The barrel is retired.

I have a 257 Weatherby in a 3 groove Lilja that is approaching 1000 rounds. It is a horror show when viewed through the bore scope with ''huge'' (relatively speaking) longitudinal cracks plus crazing going up the bore over 18 inches, but it still shoots very very accurately.

One trick I employed was moly. I cleaned the heck out of the bore then rubbed moly into the cracks, pushed out the excess powder then fired a moly bullet over it. I swear it worked and brought back its life. I also moly coat the bullets. It requires several fouling shots after a through cleaning but will shoot 25-30 rounds without any deterioration of accuracy. I know it will die eventually but a new barrel is easily obtained.

I suggest you let the barrel tell you when it decides to quit shooting. If accuracy suddenly deteriorates I'd suggest it is fouling not barrel wear and a good cleaning will bring it back.

I rebarreled a few rifles 20 yrs or more ago and I'd bet they were not shot out but severely fouled. The products available for cleaning and the knowledge we now have at our disposal, like bore scopes, have shown us that barrels can last quite a while.

Hope this gives you an idea of what occurs to an older barrel.

 

[9ptbuk]

I appreciate the advice ! I'm not so worried about it now after reading the above comments. Thanks everyone !

 

[Mikecr]

I'm sure you know this but I'll review.
Barrel life is different from accurate barrel life, which is deeper than typical anecdotal surveys produce.
For one, most shooters never reach best potential in a barrel to begin. So they don't detect loss in accuracy with any precision. Then you have the extremes, guesses, anomalies to filter past..
There is also use(shot rate), cleaning, load pressure, powder amount & powder burn temps.

I have a coworker that had brought in many wallet groups from his 25-06. They were very impressive(<1/4moa) & he was really getting into it. At ~750rnds his grouping took a step change, then the tail chasing, then the gained awareness about group shooting over-bores and barrel life. The gun would still shoot 1/2moa for quite a while I'm sure, but he wasn't used to that & didn't like it shooting so bad.

This was a case where a shooter could precisely detect departure in results.
When he shot his groups, he fired fast & then let the bore cool, but it's not a good idea to shoot a 25-06 at a fast rate -ever.

My prediction, normal use:

 

[Bbear]

I have two 25-06's now. Both are still pretty accurate for hunting rifles. The 'new' one was picked up off of a used rack in a pawn shop in 1985 and re-stocked and had the trigger worked on. No idea of round count. Since then, I've put just over 2600 rounds through it. Most in 3 or 5 shot groups. A few strings of 10 to check velocity on loads but other than that, it's just been one of the rifles I take to the range when working a load for something else.
The other one I have is a first-year production model ADL. All I've done to that one is re-stock it and put in a Canjar trigger set to 3 lbs. It was a Rem Rep's gun from 1969. He kept track of the rounds through it (just over 500 when he gave it to me). Since then I've put just over 3000 rounds through it.
Accuracy on both is still sub-1MOA, in the 'new' one it's closer to .5 MOA. I'm seriously thinking of having the 'old' one re-barreled soon as accuracy seems to go in fits and spurts - couple of range visits it shoots .6-.75" then the next couple it shoots 1.5". I've never 'scoped' the bore but I'm guessing after 3500 + rounds, the throat is pretty well cooked.

 

[MagnumManiac]

I'm sure you know this but I'll review.
Barrel life is different from accurate barrel life, which is deeper than typical anecdotal surveys produce.
For one, most shooters never reach best potential in a barrel to begin. So they don't detect loss in accuracy with any precision. Then you have the extremes, guesses, anomalies to filter past..
There is also use(shot rate), cleaning, load pressure, powder amount & powder burn temps.

I have a coworker that had brought in many wallet groups from his 25-06. They were very impressive(<1/4moa) & he was really getting into it. At ~750rnds his grouping took a step change, then the tail chasing, then the gained awareness about group shooting over-bores and barrel life. The gun would still shoot 1/2moa for quite a while I'm sure, but he wasn't used to that & didn't like it shooting so bad.

This was a case where a shooter could precisely detect departure in results.
When he shot his groups, he fired fast & then let the bore cool, but it's not a good idea to shoot a 25-06 at a fast rate -ever.

My prediction, normal use:

This^^^^^^^
This is about spot on, have shot out 1 25-06 barrel, used it for short range F-Class, at 1200 rounds, it went from 1/4 MoA to 3/8 MoA. By 1500 rounds, it was shooting 5/8 MoA and it was relegated to a hunting barrel from that point on. That barrel has seen more than 2000 rounds now, it progressively gets worse every 200 rounds or so. It's throat erosion is about the same as my 300WM comp rifles. When it starts to throw bullets, I will know it's toast and replace it.
Interesting fact, it will hold 3 shots under 1 MoA, but, throw in 2 more shots to the group and it goes just over 1 MoA.

Cheers.
gun)

 

[9ptbuk]

I'm sure you know this but I'll review.
Barrel life is different from accurate barrel life, which is deeper than typical anecdotal surveys produce.
For one, most shooters never reach best potential in a barrel to begin. So they don't detect loss in accuracy with any precision. Then you have the extremes, guesses, anomalies to filter past..
There is also use(shot rate), cleaning, load pressure, powder amount & powder burn temps.

I have a coworker that had brought in many wallet groups from his 25-06. They were very impressive(<1/4moa) & he was really getting into it. At ~750rnds his grouping took a step change, then the tail chasing, then the gained awareness about group shooting over-bores and barrel life. The gun would still shoot 1/2moa for quite a while I'm sure, but he wasn't used to that & didn't like it shooting so bad.

This was a case where a shooter could precisely detect departure in results.
When he shot his groups, he fired fast & then let the bore cool, but it's not a good idea to shoot a 25-06 at a fast rate -ever.

My prediction, normal use:

Mikecr, Could you please explain your statement about group shooting with Over-Bore rifles , I would love to hear what you have to say ! Thanks !

 

[Mikecr]

Barrel life is tied strongly to heat added to the surface of a bore/groove. The heat erodes the metal surfaces and opens every flaw -that carbon can impinge itself into.
Any cartridge can be fired at a rate that does tremendous damage to a bore, as the heat added can be too fast for flaws to close between shots. Even a smooth bore can be destroyed by this heat.

Accurate barrel life departs via two modes:
1. Carbon constriction. The ultimate killer of a barrel. Any constriction short of the muzzle kills accuracy potential.
2. Throat erosion. This affects those who need to chase lands to obtain a needed higher starting pressure. These barrels can be set back for another ~1/2 renewal in life, halving again and again, until carbon constriction takes it out for good.

Heat added follows time, and temp of powder burn per area. Heat removed follows the same between additions.
Time and area of burn typically follows powder amount per bore area (not always so simple).
I haven't defined 'overbore', there are many definitions out there, but I consider any cartridge causing accurate barrel loss below 1500 shots, with normal use, to satisfy that aspect of overbore.
There are other attributes of over bore cartridges that are beneficial, so folks go that way regardless of barrel life. Sometimes it makes sense,, other times it's ridiculous. 264wm is an example of ridiculous. Accurate barrel life is short with it even without group shooting. A 6.5x284 is over bore, producing a competitive barrel life of ~1200 shots. A 260AI is perfect(right at the line), providing ~1900, which is likely the same as a much smaller 6.5x47L.
Under bore cartridges can also be used to great detriment of accurate barrel life. A competitive 6PPC stands as such for only ~900 shots, even burning the coolest of powder available(N133). This is a truly tiny cartridge. The biggest contributors here: Pressure(causing heat) and shot rate.
There is a new category of LR wildcats, like a 6.5saum, that rely on cool powders(like H1000) to stay afloat. Otherwise, they would not last long enough to compete.
Moly adjusts barrel life (if constantly cleaned well), through cooling of the burn via latent heat of evaporation. But if not managed correctly, moly will quickly kill a barrel's potential.
The most promising for barrel life is nitride treatment. We're talking doubling, or tripling of barrel life. But who really knows? Nobody I've read has burned a treated one out yet (no trends).

 

[roninflag]

once you replace a factory barrel with a Krieger you will not be able to go back to factory.

 

[9ptbuk]

Barrel life is tied strongly to heat added to the surface of a bore/groove. The heat erodes the metal surfaces and opens every flaw -that carbon can impinge itself into.
Any cartridge can be fired at a rate that does tremendous damage to a bore, as the heat added can be too fast for flaws to close between shots. Even a smooth bore can be destroyed by this heat.

Accurate barrel life departs via two modes:
1. Carbon constriction. The ultimate killer of a barrel. Any constriction short of the muzzle kills accuracy potential.
2. Throat erosion. This affects those who need to chase lands to obtain a needed higher starting pressure. These barrels can be set back for another ~1/2 renewal in life, halving again and again, until carbon constriction takes it out for good.

Heat added follows time, and temp of powder burn per area. Heat removed follows the same between additions.
Time and area of burn typically follows powder amount per bore area (not always so simple).
I haven't defined 'overbore', there are many definitions out there, but I consider any cartridge causing accurate barrel loss below 1500 shots, with normal use, to satisfy that aspect of overbore.
There are other attributes of over bore cartridges that are beneficial, so folks go that way regardless of barrel life. Sometimes it makes sense,, other times it's ridiculous. 264wm is an example of ridiculous. Accurate barrel life is short with it even without group shooting. A 6.5x284 is over bore, producing a competitive barrel life of ~1200 shots. A 260AI is perfect(right at the line), providing ~1900, which is likely the same as a much smaller 6.5x47L.
Under bore cartridges can also be used to great detriment of accurate barrel life. A competitive 6PPC stands as such for only ~900 shots, even burning the coolest of powder available(N133). This is a truly tiny cartridge. The biggest contributors here: Pressure(causing heat) and shot rate.
There is a new category of LR wildcats, like a 6.5saum, that rely on cool powders(like H1000) to stay afloat. Otherwise, they would not last long enough to compete.
Moly adjusts barrel life (if constantly cleaned well), through cooling of the burn via latent heat of evaporation. But if not managed correctly, moly will quickly kill a barrel's potential.
The most promising for barrel life is nitride treatment. We're talking doubling, or tripling of barrel life. But who really knows? Nobody I've read has burned a treated one out yet (no trends).

Mikecr , Thank you very much for your comments !