Advice, or talk some sense into me please

[MudRunner2005]

I hear ya. In fact, I share a lot of those same thoughts. I've recommended the 6.5 Creedmoor dozens of times, and chose it myself 0.

The real story here is Remington has communicated in every way but advertising that they couldn't care less what serious shooters have to say. They NEVER supported the 260 or even troubled themselves with the reasoning behind the innovation. Hornady FULLY supported the Creedmoor, the what and the why, and in the process showed that buyers actually know what they want.

Can you imagine the products we'd have if Remington DID care or at least hired people who do?!

If Remington hired people like us for their design and R&D team, they would corner the market in 5 years, or less.

Would you pay $750 for a plain-jane Rem 700 BDL with a fully aluminum bedded stock and a 5R rifled 416r stainless barrel in a variety of popular chamberings and twist rates, and a 1 MOA guarantee? I know I would.

 

[jakelly]

Yes I would and so would 1000s of others.
How about 3" inch internal box mags for SAs, or boxes and barrels setup to optimize the 6BR that bears their name. Or 06 family cartridges with 308 taper and 30* shoulders. Or for plain vanilla easy changes, how about a 1:8" twist in 22-250, 243, 260, 270, and all 7s.

 

[FEENIX]

If Remington hired people like us for their design and R&D team, they would corner the market in 5 years, or less.

Would you pay $750 for a plain-jane Rem 700 BDL with a fully aluminum bedded stock and a 5R rifled 416r stainless barrel in a variety of popular chamberings and twist rates, and a 1 MOA guarantee? I know I would.

Here's an opportunity to excel for those that meet the criteria.

https://careers-remington.icims.com/jobs/1683/r&d-design-engineer-program-manager/job

 

[WildRose]

-Twist to stabilize high BC bullets from the factory
-Throats that fit mag length with those bullets
-Match grade factory ammo @24$/box that utilizes some of the best longer distance hunting bullets available
-A case design that accounts for the lessons learned in the last 30 years
-And come 1st quarter '17 Lapua factory brass

Now that's not all marketing and hype. Surely you wouldn't call Lapua a fad chasing company.

The same can be said of the 6.5x47L, .260 Remington, and 6.5x55 Swede.

 

[WildRose]

WildRose- how do I send you a PM?

Unfortunately you can't. Something is screwed up in my account settings and not even Len or "administrator" can figure out what.

George or Mario can get a message to me directly.

 

[WildRose]

Well, what factory chambered cartridge would you recommend to get those benefits if not a 6.5 Creedmoor? Nope the CARTRIDGE isn't MAGICAL, but as it turns out listening to the shooting community and supporting the products they want is pretty smart business. The 28 Nosler addresses some desires shooters have had, how's its popularity? What do you suppose it's popularity would be if Nosler made match grade ammo using tipped RDF bullets, a load of temp stable single base that consistently shot very well, and kept the price below $1.50ea? How about if Tikka and Kimber started chambering affordable accurate rifles to capture this market surge? Wouldn't I sound obtuse and archaic if I argued that it wasn't the cartridge but the barrel into which it's cut?

I get your point, but the fact is the same prioritization that lead to the case, lead to the twist, and lead to the loads.

Nearly all of the major rifle manufacturers are making high quality, accurate 6.5's in several cartriges. Remington and Ruger are putting out some outstanding offerings in .260 and 6.5x55 at very reasonable prices.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Yes I would and so would 1000s of others.
How about 3" inch internal box mags for SAs, or boxes and barrels setup to optimize the 6BR that bears their name. Or 06 family cartridges with 308 taper and 30* shoulders. Or for plain vanilla easy changes, how about a 1:8" twist in 22-250, 243, 260, 270, and all 7s.

I prefer 40º shoulders, and .010-.015" tapers.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Here's an opportunity to excel for those that meet the criteria.

https://careers-remington.icims.com/jobs/1683/r&d-design-engineer-program-manager/job

Ed, that would be perfect job for me, but there's only 1 requirement that i don't meet, and it's a big one...

EDUCATION and/or EXPERIENCE

BS degree in Engineering or Science (i.e. Mechanical Engineering, Chemical Engineering, Materials engineering, Physics) from a four year accredited or nationally recognized college or university and 2-5 years relevant experience ; entry Level MSc, PhD. Firearms and ammunition experience a plus.

I also find it a **** shame that a firearms manufacturing company hires people in their R&D department that don't have firearms and ammunition experience.

And there in-lies the problem...Bureaucratic bullcrap is what destroys a company.

 

[toddc]

I thought the 6.5 got popular in the 70s. I know the 264 WM was THE LR RIG back then since the bullets available for 30 cal and even the 7mm sucked At least that's how I remember it. Of course my memory is &^$( so IDK.

Someone said the reason hey don't like the Creed is because we had a perfectly good round in the 260 that Remington crapped all over just like every other round they touch.

In 1975 Remington and Winchester were THE gun market. Ruger was for weirdos and Savages were for broke weirdos.

HORNADY was a niche bullet maker that probably grossed $100k a yr in sales. WHERE ARE THEY NOW?

Great management at a small company will eventually overtake and someday BURY a terribly managed GIANT like big green.

The day Hornady or Lapua opens a firearm line.........Remington stock will go down 1000%.

 

[toddc]

Ed, that would be perfect job for me, but there's only 1 requirement that i don't meet, and it's a big one...



I also find it a **** shame that a firearms manufacturing company hires people in their R&D department that don't have firearms and ammunition experience.

And there in-lies the problem...Bureaucratic bullcrap is what destroys a company.

Yep I'm certain EVERYONE working for Remington right now has a rather large degree in BS.

 

[jakelly]

The same can be said of the 6.5x47L, .260 Remington, and 6.5x55 Swede.

None of these cartridges check all the boxes. The line that probably means as much as the rest combined is cheap match ammo with killer bullets, none have that. The Creedmoor's popularity is driven by the fact that you get them all as cheap as you please.

 

[jakelly]

I thought the 6.5 got popular in the 70s. I know the 264 WM was THE LR RIG back then since the bullets available for 30 cal and even the 7mm sucked At least that's how I remember it. Of course my memory is &^$( so IDK.

Someone said the reason hey don't like the Creed is because we had a perfectly good round in the 260 that Remington crapped all over just like every other round they touch.

In 1975 Remington and Winchester were THE gun market. Ruger was for weirdos and Savages were for broke weirdos.

HORNADY was a niche bullet maker that probably grossed $100k a yr in sales. WHERE ARE THEY NOW?

Great management at a small company will eventually overtake and someday BURY a terribly managed GIANT like big green.

The day Hornady or Lapua opens a firearm line.........Remington stock will go down 1000%.

+1 to many of the points here.
Think how many companies either wouldn't exist or would be 10% of their size if Remington weren't so pompous and arthritic.

I would love to see Hornady compete with Remington and Kimber.

 

[jakelly]

I prefer 40º shoulders, and .010-.015" tapers.

Lol, yeah I was trying not to be too greedy.

 

[toddc]

None of these cartridges check all the boxes. The line that probably means as much as the rest combined is cheap match ammo with killer bullets, none have that. The Creedmoor's popularity is driven by the fact that you get them all as cheap as you please.

Kind of afraid that ya got them and me with that one. Hornady's marketing, support and READY SUPPLY of cheap good ammo has been the real key to the Creed.

Everyone else produces these wonderguns and then either ya can't AFFORD to feed them or can't FIND ammo or it isn't ACCURATE

The Hornady Creed ammo is the only factory ammo I have ever felt comfortable shooting much past 50 FT. SD and ES is close to as good as I can build and it will BUGHOLE.

Yeah Creed guys can be supporters but if BIG GREEN cowpatty would take a lesson from them we would all be a lot happier I think.

Here is my summation of the gun market right now.

Remington.....just doesn't care, too much military $$$$.
Winchester......living off of a name.
Ruger......has a clue but a lil quirky and smiths still aren't fond of them.
Savage......Trying to transition from great shooting cheap to highly profitable and building a name.
Hornady, Tikka, Sako, Weatherby......know WHAT they are doing, WHY they are doing it and WHERE they come from and are GOING.

Remmy and Winny need to kick the board out on the street and BECOME real GUN companies again.

Just MHO of course.