Have you worked up a load with the Absolute Hammers ????
Absolute Hammer load data
- Thread starter RockyMtnMT
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
Hand Skills
Well-Known Member
Based on conventional wisdom, yes, but the Absolute Hammer is not a conventional bullet.
The results posted in this thread seem to reinforce this fact.
It's not easy to put the things we think we know aside. If we can be humble and acknowledge we don't know what we dont know, sometimes a world of wonder appears!
I'm working with the 151AH in a 308win. I posed the data couple pages back and it is in the excel doc.
I'm not claiming to know everything/maybe I'm over simplifying it so please correct me if/where I have it wrong.
The way Isame principles apply to the AH's that apply to all other bullets for a give cartridge:
To get max velocity you need to get the most powder in the case without creating to much pressure.
if you run out of space before you see any pressure you need a faster power.
If you hit pressure before you run out of space you go with a slower powder.
where the AHs are different is that the lower engraving pressure of the bullet, because less pressure is needed to get the lands to cut into the bullet the standard load doesn't develop the same pressure as it does with a standard bullet. Because most standard loads are full or compressed loads you need to go to a faster powder because you can't fit enough of the standard powder in the case to hit max. There are some exceptions to this, one being Steve's 30-06 178AH load. H100v is one of the standard 06 powders for 180gr bullets, the difference is the Nosler max is only at 90% case full so there is room to add the extra powder.
After looking at the Nosler 6.5CM data it could be the same situation as the RL17 max is 44.5gr at 93% case fill so you should be able to fit another 3.3 gr of powder in the case before the load starts compressing. Now maybe you hit pressure before you get all that powder in there. The only way to know would be to work slowly work up.
Again, I'm not trying to be combative. Just trying to explain how I understand it so that those smarter and with more experience than me can correct what I have wrong.
-Matt
Everything you just said does not apply to the AH's, Conventional thinking does not apply here, Do what works for you but if you read the whole thread I would think you would have a better grasp on it by now, No offense intended
First post. Thank you to everyone who's contributed information on loading these. Here is my info from loading 162's for a 30-06. My goal was to develop a decently fast load with a powders I already have on hand, H4350 and H Varget. I have a standard mag box, so I couldn't go too long. Fieldcraft with 24" barrel. Velocities via Magnetospeed. One round per charge weight. 36 degrees F, but rounds kept it vehicle.
30-06 162 Absolute Hammer
Win cases
Fed GM215M
Col 3.36
H4350
56 grains 2878fps
56.4 2901
56.8 2908
57.2 2953
57.6 2968
58.0 2971
58.4 2966 compressed
Varget
49.0 grains 2740fps
50.5 2839
51.5 2866
52 2904
52.5 2940
53.0 2923
53.5 2988
54 3004
54.5 3032
55.0 3033
55.5 3077 very faint ejector mark, need 8x loop to really see
56.0 3085 same as above ejector make. Case not full.
Final Load:
I loaded several at 54.6 grains to get more velocities and test accuracy.
The velocities were 3030, 3032, 3030, 3038. Without magnetospeed installed I shot two, four-shot groups. One was 0.43" and the other 0.29". I'm happy with the load. I wanted to get over 3100, but this is my first time going this far above book loads, and it was as far as I wanted to push it. Hodgdon lists the max load for a 165 grain bullet at 50.5 grains (less than that for a mono bullet).
30-06 162 Absolute Hammer
Win cases
Fed GM215M
Col 3.36
H4350
56 grains 2878fps
56.4 2901
56.8 2908
57.2 2953
57.6 2968
58.0 2971
58.4 2966 compressed
Varget
49.0 grains 2740fps
50.5 2839
51.5 2866
52 2904
52.5 2940
53.0 2923
53.5 2988
54 3004
54.5 3032
55.0 3033
55.5 3077 very faint ejector mark, need 8x loop to really see
56.0 3085 same as above ejector make. Case not full.
Final Load:
I loaded several at 54.6 grains to get more velocities and test accuracy.
The velocities were 3030, 3032, 3030, 3038. Without magnetospeed installed I shot two, four-shot groups. One was 0.43" and the other 0.29". I'm happy with the load. I wanted to get over 3100, but this is my first time going this far above book loads, and it was as far as I wanted to push it. Hodgdon lists the max load for a 165 grain bullet at 50.5 grains (less than that for a mono bullet).
You done good
floyd kittrell
Well-Known Member
Mr. Steve , could you please print the minimum speed for all three .308 Absolute Hammers to fully open ? I was going to call you or Mr. Brian but thought everyone that intends to run these way out would appreciate knowing max range we can shoot them in each of our different cartridges . I have received all three .308 bullets but I have not started work ups yet , as we are in the middle of our season down south .
Thank you Sir , Floyd
Thank you Sir , Floyd
cohunt
Well-Known Member
The AH should be the same as the HH -- 1800 is what Steve recommends
floyd kittrell
Well-Known Member
Thank you Sir , I was hoping for 1600 , Floyd
floyd kittrell
Well-Known Member
Has anyone attempted to load Superformance with any of the AH's in the 30-06 yet ?
cohunt
Well-Known Member
That doesn't mean they don't expand at slower speeds, that is what Steve recommends for consistent performance-- he says if you want to go slower then you'll need to do expansion testing to verify any slower speeds
Last edited:
Just got off the phone with Steve. Above statrment is correct. Go lower than 1800, but test first. They'll still kill and penetrate below 1800 fps.
G
G
@Grifm
I've been thinking about your earlier post. A lot of us have been working with the new AH bullet. As BBean stated in his reply, what we have learned is that the AHs are an entirely different animal when developing loads. Traditional rules and expectations do not entirely apply in the way we have always thought.
There are a couple of misconceptions in your earlier post. "The same principles apply to AHs that apply to all other bullets." This is not entirely true.
First, the design of the AH is such that engraving pressure does not change with powder charge. The ogive of the bullet never touches the rifling. Only the PDR drive bands touch the rifling – and this is a significantly lesser engraving pressure – always. It is also constant. The bullets are so easy to move, they can move "prematurely" before full ignition is achieved; before the case mouth seals and speed is reached. For this reason, Steve recommends magnum primers to help give the bullet a little "start" on it's trip toward full speed. Also, most have learned that increased neck tension helps in this process of retarding bullet movement until more pressure is generated. Increased neck tension may mean using 3-4 thousandths neck tension rather than a more customary .002 neck tension. Others (most notably BBean) have experimented very successfully with additional neck tension after bullet-seating using the Lee Factory Crimp Die. BBean has achieved some eye raising speeds in his rifles, as have others using factory crimp dies or jamming the drive bands into the rifling just a little to delay initial bullet movement (25WSM).
In my testing, I found that increasing neck tension up to .004 shows measurable results in some cartridges. Beyond .004 I could see no improvement. My thinking is that once you seat the bullet, you stretch the neck out to bullet diameter and the case can only exert so much pressure at that point. Neck crimping can add additional tension after seating the bullet.
Your basic logic is sound with traditional bullets. AHs behave differently. Because of the low friction with the AHs, you are correct in that traditional powders may not achieve the full velocity potential of the bullet. That is why most use significantly faster powders, with increased neck tension, to achieve the best velocity possible within pressure constraints.
If you cannot achieve desired velocity, go to a faster powder. After you try several powders, you will bracket the pressure/velocity envelope that you need. If you max out in case space before velocity, drop down to a faster powder. Keep doing this until you arrive at a decent case fill amount, and achieve the fastest velocity you can without pressure. I went through 4 different powders and 3 primers developing one load. Others have had the same experience. This is all "new ground" with these bullets. It was Steve's idea (Hammer Bullets) to try and capture this new knowledge. That is the reason for the data spread sheet in this thread. Sharing information saves a lot of confusion and mis-steps for others like yourself.
In your example of the Creedmoor, you are correct in one aspect. You can go up in powder charge with R-17 to see if you can gain more velocity before hitting pressure. My bet would be go to a much faster powder because you can run a lot more of it before hitting pressure with the reduced friction of the AHs.
In fact, if you look at the load data spreadsheet (post #2), you will find that the most successful Creedmoor loads used powders Waay faster that R-17.
I've been thinking about your earlier post. A lot of us have been working with the new AH bullet. As BBean stated in his reply, what we have learned is that the AHs are an entirely different animal when developing loads. Traditional rules and expectations do not entirely apply in the way we have always thought.
There are a couple of misconceptions in your earlier post. "The same principles apply to AHs that apply to all other bullets." This is not entirely true.
First, the design of the AH is such that engraving pressure does not change with powder charge. The ogive of the bullet never touches the rifling. Only the PDR drive bands touch the rifling – and this is a significantly lesser engraving pressure – always. It is also constant. The bullets are so easy to move, they can move "prematurely" before full ignition is achieved; before the case mouth seals and speed is reached. For this reason, Steve recommends magnum primers to help give the bullet a little "start" on it's trip toward full speed. Also, most have learned that increased neck tension helps in this process of retarding bullet movement until more pressure is generated. Increased neck tension may mean using 3-4 thousandths neck tension rather than a more customary .002 neck tension. Others (most notably BBean) have experimented very successfully with additional neck tension after bullet-seating using the Lee Factory Crimp Die. BBean has achieved some eye raising speeds in his rifles, as have others using factory crimp dies or jamming the drive bands into the rifling just a little to delay initial bullet movement (25WSM).
In my testing, I found that increasing neck tension up to .004 shows measurable results in some cartridges. Beyond .004 I could see no improvement. My thinking is that once you seat the bullet, you stretch the neck out to bullet diameter and the case can only exert so much pressure at that point. Neck crimping can add additional tension after seating the bullet.
Your basic logic is sound with traditional bullets. AHs behave differently. Because of the low friction with the AHs, you are correct in that traditional powders may not achieve the full velocity potential of the bullet. That is why most use significantly faster powders, with increased neck tension, to achieve the best velocity possible within pressure constraints.
If you cannot achieve desired velocity, go to a faster powder. After you try several powders, you will bracket the pressure/velocity envelope that you need. If you max out in case space before velocity, drop down to a faster powder. Keep doing this until you arrive at a decent case fill amount, and achieve the fastest velocity you can without pressure. I went through 4 different powders and 3 primers developing one load. Others have had the same experience. This is all "new ground" with these bullets. It was Steve's idea (Hammer Bullets) to try and capture this new knowledge. That is the reason for the data spread sheet in this thread. Sharing information saves a lot of confusion and mis-steps for others like yourself.
In your example of the Creedmoor, you are correct in one aspect. You can go up in powder charge with R-17 to see if you can gain more velocity before hitting pressure. My bet would be go to a much faster powder because you can run a lot more of it before hitting pressure with the reduced friction of the AHs.
In fact, if you look at the load data spreadsheet (post #2), you will find that the most successful Creedmoor loads used powders Waay faster that R-17.
Last edited:
