7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

[Lefty7mmstw]

Lefty, With what your saying Im gonna have to say its the Reloader Powder curse,Now dont get me wrong I really like the RL powders but the heat effects them so much that I am gonna change the loads that I am using them in to something else altogether, What Im getting at is my Laredo shoots .358 groups when its below 80 degees.....anything above that and it just goes south,The hotter it is the worse it gets and i have a varmit round that I shoot RL22 in and it does the same thing yours is doing in the heat ........Back your powder off a half a grain or so and shoot a series and see what it does, If I was a betting man I'd say thats whats going on

I'm at least three grains from the top already, and 150 fps off the top.
I got ****ed and grabbed some lowly 140 sierras with rl22 under them after this happened the second time, and drilled a nice little sub moa group at 100, so it's probably not powder. I know wc 872 really is terrible (shotgun accuracy and 150 fps x) with this bullet, so that's out anyway.
I'm wondering if i have to turn this thing into a snail to get this bullet to hold together(near start loads), or if long seating will help. If not, will my 7 rem be easy enough on this bullet to get it to shoot decently??

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Butterbean, if you really think it's still powder even though the rifle shot rl22 with the 140, I'll get some Retumbo and try it out with the 171's. I just haven't seen rl powders do that so I'm skeptical about it I guess.

 

[ButterBean]

I'm at least three grains from the top already, and 150 fps off the top.
I got ****ed and grabbed some lowly 140 sierras with rl22 under them after this happened the second time, and drilled a nice little sub moa group at 100, so it's probably not powder. I know wc 872 really is terrible (shotgun accuracy and 150 fps x) with this bullet, so that's out anyway.
I'm wondering if i have to turn this thing into a snail to get this bullet to hold together(near start loads), or if long seating will help. If not, will my 7 rem be easy enough on this bullet to get it to shoot decently??[/QUOTE) Well now that we have all that on the table I'll agree and say your stressing the bullet so you may have to slow it down a bit ........I know everyone is looking for speed as am I to a point,But accuracy is the most important thing to me, I work a load to its best then and only then will I look at the numbers,and then I'll figure my ballistics from there......If I have to dial 18 minutes vs 15 minutes for a load that I know will be on the money ....So be it,But thats just me

 

[ButterBean]

Butterbean, if you really think it's still powder even though the rifle shot rl22 with the 140, I'll get some Retumbo and try it out with the 171's. I just haven't seen rl powders do that so I'm skeptical about it I guess.

Bud like I said you may be stressing the bullet but I have seen RL powders do some weird stuff in the heat RL22 in particular the 25 is not as bad but its still touchy in the heat, Like i was saying I have a varmit rifle that i use Rl22 in and it does the same thing your is doing in the heat,Its a big big overbore an Im really stressing the bullet but it ill shoot bug hole groups under 80 degrees after that it may put 5 in hole and shoot one almost off the paper,Talked to 7STW about it (as he is the RL22 king) and I backed it off a grain and it stopped doing it, I personally am not willing to load for weather conditions so am back to the drawing board for the Laredo and my coyote rig .....Like I said I really like the RL powders just cant deal with the temp swings

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

The problem with the 171 barnes in the 7stw with rl25 is the next accuracy node down is around 2800 fps. I can get that with a 280, for cripes sakes. I topped at 78 grains at 3100 fps with poor accuracy, but the top node was at 2950 fps with 75 grains rl25.
I also tried wc872 and rl50, and rl50 showed promise. Wc872 doesn't feel loaded enough and I didn't even bother to finish shooting the last group as it was horrible. Put wc872 under a 190 in my 300 ultra and it's great though. It even works fine at 69.5 grains in a standard 270 with a 130 interbond at 2700 fps or so; so go figure. I guess heavy compression works with that powder even if the load is light.
I didn't try rl22, but this rifle tops out speed wise rather early with rl22, so I thought I'd have trouble with speed using it.
I guess I'll either find some retumbo or 5010.

 

[7stw]

The problem with the 171 barnes in the 7stw with rl25 is the next accuracy node down is around 2800 fps. I can get that with a 280, for cripes sakes. I topped at 78 grains at 3100 fps with poor accuracy, but the top node was at 2950 fps with 75 grains rl25.
I also tried wc872 and rl50, and rl50 showed promise. Wc872 doesn't feel loaded enough and I didn't even bother to finish shooting the last group as it was horrible. Put wc872 under a 190 in my 300 ultra and it's great though. It even works fine at 69.5 grains in a standard 270 with a 130 interbond at 2700 fps or so; so go figure. I guess heavy compression works with that powder even if the load is light.
I didn't try rl22, but this rifle tops out speed wise rather early with rl22, so I thought I'd have trouble with speed using it.
I guess I'll either find some retumbo or 5010.

Lefty, I haven't been commenting much , but I read the coinages every day. As my " partner in crime, Butterbean, " said, I am a fan of RL22 in my STW's. But I have been monitoring what you say your gun is doing, and I have to say that I think you may have a ignition problem going on there. Can't prove it, but it sure smells it to me. Sounds like you have tried, or are going to try different powders, but you didn't mention any primer changes. Additionally, I haven't tried the Barnes burners, but am a Barnes fan. I am assuming they are a monolithic bullet, if that is so
, you certainly are not having a " jacket" issue. Frankly, I don't think that is your problem at all.
Erratic( spelled inconsistent) will cause POI changes, quicker than anything. It will make you chase your tail too. It can be as simple as a primer change, or it may be that the striker is not delivering a CONSISTENT blow to the primer. Do you uniform you pockets? Reason I ask, is that a friend of mine was having ignition problems a while back, and we discovered that his pocket Uniformer was cutting the hole too deep, causing a light strike. These are just a few things that come to mind. I could be totally wrong as well,but is food for thought. " Chew on that for a while".
When things like these show up, sometimes we have to go back to the drawing board, cross " T" 's and dot "I" 's. Good luck, and good shootin'.
One last thing, maybe check your bolt and firing pin. Could be it is hanging up, or is either dry, or gunned up with congealed lube. Just a thought.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Lefty, I haven't been commenting much , but I read the coinages every day. As my " partner in crime, Butterbean, " said, I am a fan of RL22 in my STW's. But I have been monitoring what you say your gun is doing, and I have to say that I think you may have a ignition problem going on there. Can't prove it, but it sure smells it to me. Sounds like you have tried, or are going to try different powders, but you didn't mention any primer changes. Additionally, I haven't tried the Barnes burners, but am a Barnes fan. I am assuming they are a monolithic bullet, if that is so
, you certainly are not having a " jacket" issue. Frankly, I don't think that is your problem at all.
Erratic( spelled inconsistent) will cause POI changes, quicker than anything. It will make you chase your tail too. It can be as simple as a primer change, or it may be that the striker is not delivering a CONSISTENT blow to the primer. Do you uniform you pockets? Reason I ask, is that a friend of mine was having ignition problems a while back, and we discovered that his pocket Uniformer was cutting the hole too deep, causing a light strike. These are just a few things that come to mind. I could be totally wrong as well,but is food for thought. " Chew on that for a while".
When things like these show up, sometimes we have to go back to the drawing board, cross " T" 's and dot "I" 's. Good luck, and good shootin'.
One last thing, maybe check your bolt and firing pin. Could be it is hanging up, or is either dry, or gunned up with congealed lube. Just a thought.

The barnes matchburners are their new lead core match bullets sold for around $30 per hundred. I've only used the 215 in the 7stw, and I'd rather not change; I do have other mag primers around though and that may be a play here.
This rifle does sub-moa with a 140 sierra, 77rl22, 215; and 140 accubond, 82rl25, 215 so all is not lost if I can't get the barnes match to shoot. Heck, I might even go to the lrx as they aren't much more expensive than the accubond lately and there's no jacket being a mono bullet.
My biggest beef with my 140 acubond load was three fold; first, it's in win brass, second, it's getting rather spendy to shoot the accubond, third, the 140 isn't even at .500 bc and I was trying for a bit more that way.
The sierra load was about the same(rem brass though), other than it isn't even quite at 3300 fps and the bc is even worse on that bullet.
I've got around 300 of the Barnes left; I'm going to try for another pound of powder or so then shoot 'em in the 7rem putting along if I can't get them gamed right in the 7stw. I do uniform my primer pockets btw..

 

[7stw]

The barnes matchburners are their new lead core match bullets sold for around $30 per hundred. I've only used the 215 in the 7stw, and I'd rather not change; I do have other mag primers around though and that may be a play here.
This rifle does sub-moa with a 140 sierra, 77rl22, 215; and 140 accubond, 82rl25, 215 so all is not lost if I can't get the barnes match to shoot. Heck, I might even go to the lrx as they aren't much more expensive than the accubond lately and there's no jacket being a mono bullet.
My biggest beef with my 140 acubond load was three fold; first, it's in win brass, second, it's getting rather spendy to shoot the accubond, third, the 140 isn't even at .500 bc and I was trying for a bit more that way.
The sierra load was about the same(rem brass though), other than it isn't even quite at 3300 fps and the bc is even worse on that bullet.
I've got around 300 of the Barnes left; I'm going to try for another pound of powder or so then shoot 'em in the 7rem putting along if I can't get them gamed right in the 7stw. I do uniform my primer pockets btw..

Good points made, however, I still thiNk there could be a ignition issue. I would recommend picking up a few flats of 215's from a different lot no. Better yet, get some 215 match primers.the match primers area little more CONSISTENT, not hotter.I agree with not changing types of primers, it may just be the lot. I have had this problem, and it drove me nuts. The 215's are the heat in which to stay with. I have had good luck with WLRM's. But overall, the 215 is the ticket.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Good points made, however, I still thiNk there could be a ignition issue. I would recommend picking up a few flats of 215's from a different lot no. Better yet, get some 215 match primers.the match primers area little more CONSISTENT, not hotter.I agree with not changing types of primers, it may just be the lot. I have had this problem, and it drove me nuts. The 215's are the heat in which to stay with. I have had good luck with WLRM's. But overall, the 215 is the ticket.

I'll play a bit on the primers(215 M and wlrm), and go with butterbean's idea of switching my guncotton and try retumbo. Hopefully I'll have a load with that pill one of these days.
Side note-- do anything about seating depth or not?? When they are on they'll go under .3" at 100 yards. I'm at max mag length at 3.685".

 

[etisll40]

My 7 STW.

I'm getting another stock and I'm pumped about it. The "Rifleman." stock

I may sell this HS Precision Pro Series 2000 with the Remington ADL-BDL conversion kit, floor plate and Wyatt Extended box. But I'm going to wait until I see how the new one shoots. Mine was bedded by a pro and I'd guess it was good as I shot a quick 3- shot ragged hole today to compare it to later at 100 yards.

Here it is:

 

[ButterBean]

My 7 STW.

I'm getting another stock and I'm pumped about it. The "Rifleman." stock

I may sell this HS Precision Pro Series 2000 with the Remington ADL-BDL conversion kit, floor plate and Wyatt Extended box. But I'm going to wait until I see how the new one shoots. Mine was bedded by a pro and I'd guess it was good as I shot a quick 3- shot ragged hole today to compare it to later at 100 yards.

Here it is:

Nice looking rig Ed and nice shooting

 

[ButterBean]

I'll play a bit on the primers(215 M and wlrm), and go with butterbean's idea of switching my guncotton and try retumbo. Hopefully I'll have a load with that pill one of these days.
Side note-- do anything about seating depth or not?? When they are on they'll go under .3" at 100 yards. I'm at max mag length at 3.685".

Lefty,Leave your seating deapth alone for now,You already know it works,If you start switching a bunch of things at one time you'll end up in the fog (I've been there)That wont have anything to do with your flyer anyway,7stw may be onto somthing about a bad lot of primers and is something to take into consideration for sure

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Lefty,Leave your seating deapth alone for now,You already know it works,If you start switching a bunch of things at one time you'll end up in the fog (I've been there)That wont have anything to do with your flyer anyway,7stw may be onto somthing about a bad lot of primers and is something to take into consideration for sure

If it's really bad primers I may have a lot of unloading to do; as I buy by the case and don't mark lot #'s on the box when I load 'em. I guess those that aint broke don't need fixing though. I may just dig in the primer shelf to see what the lot #'s are-- I've got 10K primers here(I'm not running out- dang near did last time we played the Obama game and started with a few K) so I should be able to get into another lot. If I can't- off to the store I go.
I'm hoping it's more like the aa powders where they sometimes like a win primer better and hang-fire for a split second on fed. That's the reason I won't use Magpro.

 

[7stw]

Lefty,Leave your seating deapth alone for now,You already know it works,If you start switching a bunch of things at one time you'll end up in the fog (I've been there)That wont have anything to do with your flyer anyway,7stw may be onto somthing about a bad lot of primers and is something to take into consideration for sure

Yup, I'll second that notion. DO NOT fool with the seating depth, it is not the problem, but you will create one if you change it, AND the primer at the same time. Effectively, you will be reformulating your load all over again.
On another note, getting back to the issue with the " lowly 140 grain bullet". There is a lot to be said for it, it smokes whitetail in there tracks, shoots flatter than a 22-250, and if shots are inside 500 yds, the added BC isn't really a issue. Drop a 140 BT, TSX, or TTSX, and send it out at about 3400, and the deer in your crosshair is guaranteed a pick- up ride. Don't take my word for it, read Layne Simpsons own words. (I think he knows a thing or two about the cartridge). However, I am not saying there is anything wrong with a 160 class bullet. One of mine is very fond of 160 grain Speer Grand Slams.
As far as your " fliers", in retrospect, and after re- reading your post, I gathered that you did get good groups when you went to another bullet, and assuming you used the same primers as before, it COULD be that the Burners after all, but I do not think it is a jacket separation issue. Barnes QC seems to be spot on these days, and I am very impressed with the bullets that I have shot. I am however, not familiar with the Barnes Burners, until I heard about them from you.
Any way, I hope you figure it out without having to unload and reload a bunch of ammo. The one and only last thig that comes to mind COULD be powder bridging in you powder funnel, when you go from round to round. That would make one load with a lighter charge, and another with a heavier charge. I have done that plenty of times, and caught myself before seating the bullet. Just another thought! Take care, and I hope things work out.