7mm Rem. Mag vs. .308 Winchester

[Ian M]

MM,
Did you get my note that there are some left-handed Eagle stock packs at Stubbygear? Not sure if you need any, we just ordered a bunch from Eric.

 

[Guest]

SO !!!

All that power is great if your hitting what you shoot at.
If your shooting a light 7mm that kicks the hell out of you your not going to shoot it as well as a 308 of the same weight.
I don't think that all that power is realy called for but the extra bump does help in a bind when the angles arn't the best. That is whay I shoot a 100lb bow for everything I hunt , do I need it ,,no not usualy but its their if I do have to take a head on or strait away shot at the bull of a lifetime.

Personaly , I think that in the correct hands that the 308 will do anything it asked of , it just happens to be a narrow field of hands , the extra power makes the group a little larger.

AGAIN , I ask the fellow that posted this
What ranges are you going to be shooting and what are you looking for your gun to do ?

Hell for all we know this guy might need a 338 Lapua !!

 

[Darryl Cassel]

T. Ray

For the mule deer and elk rifle you mentioned,
I would buy a 7mm Mag and never look back.

Theres "NO" 308 Win that can give you the ballsitics that the 7mm Mag will give you in any bullet of the same weight.

If you ever entertain the thought of reaching out to medium longrange, the 7mm will do it much better.

If you used a custom bullet of 180 grs in the 7mm, it will have nearly a .700 BC.
The only bullet coming close to that in the 30 cal is the Sierra 240 gr MK with a .711 and that bullet just don't go fast enough from the the little 308 Win case to be a good choice. The best bullets in the 308 seems to be the 168gr to 175 gr and the BC of those bullets are very low compared to the 7mm 162gr, 168 gr or 180 gr.

My vote would be the 7mm mag for short range or medium longrange for mule deer or elk.

Later
DC

 

[MontanaMarine]

Thanks Ian, sent you an email.

MM

 

[Tim Behle]

Put me down as another fan of the great 7mm.

The only time mine kicks hard is when I load the Berger 180's HOT.

The 7 mag can do anything the .308 can, and still have room for more powder in the case!

 

[JR]

You really are talking apples and oranges, or chalk and cheese as they say here..A better comparison would be the 300 Win Mag/7 Rem Mag or 308 Win/7 x 57 Mauser..

The accolades of the 7mm is a good choice of bullets, good velocities for long distance, doesn't leave you for want..the cons are that it is a barrel burning round, is an overbore cartridge which is not very efficient in hunting length barrels.

The .308 also includes a vast choice of bullets, velocity is ok but not stellar, accurate up to 800 yds, very stable, and it will shoot for many many years, not a barrel burner, cheap easy to find components, and lots of ballistic data...cons are it doesn't pack the punch of the larger 'magnum' 30 cal class..

I wouldn't hesitate to take either into the field, after any large north american game..Whatever you shoot, hit the range as much as you possibly can, know the rifle and where the bullet is going to strike..Shot placement is the name of the game...

JR

 

[RAYZORT]

Mr Jones, in response to your question: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>AGAIN , I ask the fellow that posted this. What ranges are you going to be shooting and what are you looking for your gun to do ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To clarify from my original post about hunting Deer and Elk in Idaho and Wyoming, I'll add that ranges will generally be 200-350 yards. Longer than that would be under ideal conditions.

What do I want the gun to do:
1. Get a bullet out to these distances wth enough energy to kill what I aim at.
2. The rifle should be light enough to carry all day, yet not too light that the recoil is unmanageable.

It's an interesting discussion trying to balance the two and look at all options for a single rifle. Is there a perfect gun, I doubt it, but I do beleive that a particular rifle of given design matched with a good all around caliber to cover most circumstances is achievable.

Here's another scenario you might want to comment on, and was brought up by others, JR I believe.

I have narrowed the caliber down to the 7mm Rem. Mag or the .300 Win. Mag. Would you be kind enough to offer your advice on these two and your preference?
I appreciate your input

 

[Darryl Cassel]

Now comparing the 7mm Mag and the 300 Win Mag

For only 250 to 300 yards as you stated your max would be, I would still pick the 7mm Mag.

The lower recoil advantage goes to the 7mm in this comparison.

The 300 Winchester mag I would pick if the ranges were much further and I could use heavier bullets like the 200 gr MK, 210 Berger, 220 MK.

For a factory carry gun to shoot 250 to 300 yards,and with short barrels, pick the 7mm mag and then you can still reach out much further if you want to.

The 308 Win we first talked about, will kill fine at the range mentioned above but, the 7mm will outperform it at long distance.

The 300 Win mag will outperform the 7MM mag at the expense of added recoil.

Later and your decision
DC

 

[RAYZORT]

Darryl, if one could tame the recoil of the .300 (i.e., Muzzlebrake & Pachymar Decelerator Pad), wouldn't it be prudent to go with the .300 and get the extra "umph" if ever needed?

Doesn't the .300 have more cartridge and loading options than the 7mm?

[ 01-17-2004: Message edited by: T. Ray ]

 

[Michael Eichele]

VH,

You are correct in that same bullet styles and same weight 30 vs 7mm, the BC of the 7mm will always be higher than the 30 cal.

The point I was trying to make is that the 175 SMK for 30 cal is around .500 BC the 168 SMK for the 7mm is .488 BC Because of the bigger bore and therefore more gas expansion in the 30 cal you can drive the 175 some what faster out of a 300 winchester than you could a 168 grain bullet from a 7mm rem mag. Because of the burn increase in the bigger barrel and the same barrel length the 300 will be faster with heavier bullets. These cases are near identical, yet the 300 win mag would be king.

Also typically in a 30 cal rifle you dont need an 8 or 9 twist. This equals less twisting torque upon recoil.

Thanx for the support DK

PS This is what works for me and only my personal view poin on the pros and cons of the 30 vs 7mm There is no offence meant here to 7mm fans! There are great arguments in this topic from both sides.

[ 01-17-2004: Message edited by: meichele ]

 

[Darryl Cassel]

T.

At the distance you plan on shooting, the 7mm Mag will work just fine.
There's enough energy and bullet selection to kill anything in the country with the 7mm Mag.

If you want to use muzzle brakes, you can certainly go with a 300 Win Mag. in case you want to reach way out there sometime?

There's no "perfect" rifle for everyone.

Later
DC
Later
DC

 

[Darryl Cassel]

Michael

Theres "more" powder capacity in the 300 Win Mag. That's why you would get more velocity with about the same weight bullet as in a 7mm Mag.

The first post was matching up a 7mm mag to a 308 Winchester. The 7mm Mag will leave the 308 in it's dust when using the same weight bullets in each.

Later
DC

 

[Brent]

There might be more capacity in the 300 wm than the 7 mag, but also as Michael is saying, the 30 calibers larger bore diameter will create less pressure than a 7, when burning the same amount of powder in the same case capacity. Now add more capacity and it's even more efficient and produces higher MV yet.

Get the 300 wm, or 300 Ultra and a good brake, then you got power to drive the higher BC bullets with less wind drift and higher retained energy at LR.

The 300 Ultra with a brake don't kick as much as even a 308 does...

Savage's have the twist adjustable ON/OFF brake, the one on my Striker works really well. The 300 Ultra is a 26" tube as well...

http://www.savagearms.com/116fsak.htm

[ 01-17-2004: Message edited by: Brent ]

 

[Brett.A.Williams.]

T.Ray, If you've used both the .308Win & the 7mm Mag, there's no drama whichever one you pick for your elk [ wapiti in New Zealand ] hunting. I've used the .300WSM a lot in my mates Win mod 70 stainless and it's great for hammering pigs on the river flats,- far more emphatic than my .270Win at ranges from 200 to 400 meters.
I have only fired half a dozen rounds out of a 7mm Rem mag, for a couple of donkeys and a couple of roos, and to be honest with myself I just don't go much on calibres under .30 cal, as excellent and potent as the 7mm Rem Mag is.
I certainly will not belittle anyones choice/favourite rifle/calibre.
I'd like to see photos of different projectiles posted, as I have a lot I've recovered and will try to get them posted.
Especially from those ultra-mags at long ranges!
Cheers.