7mm Rem. Mag vs. .308 Winchester

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by RAYZORT, Jan 14, 2004.

  1. RAYZORT

    RAYZORT Member

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    I'm new to this forum but prowl many others. I am about to purchase a new rifle. I was leaning toward the Weatherby Mark V in 7mm Rem. Mag. but I was not real happy about the weight,8-3/4 pounds w/out scope & mounts - 26" barrel. I can get the same rifle in .308 Win. weighing in @ 7-1/4 pounds - 24" barrel. I like the idea of a lighter rifle.

    I'm concerned about the ballistics if I go with the lighter gun. Both rounds are good but...

    I will use the rifle for Deer & Elk. Hunting is done in Idaho & Wyoming. Any suggestions/recommendations would be helpful.
     
  2. Brett.A.Williams.

    Brett.A.Williams. New Member

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    Hi, T. Ray, buy a 30 cal, a 300 WSM or like.
    Just a suggestion.
    There's a lot of blokes on this site who shoot some serious horsepowwer and distances, me I love my Brno zkk 602, in .375 H&H. As I shoot a lot of Camels and Donkeys for pet meat in the north-west of West Australia, and a fair few pigs and goats.
    Have a read of www.african-hunter.com/lessons_learned. Rifle lessons learned from professional hunters, interesting reading about different rifle makes, and what happens when you push them.
    Cheers.
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    May seem a bit strange for a couple of Aussies to offering advice on Elk cartridges, however I have hunted them in Nz and know they are a serious size.
    The cartridges you have mentioned will kill them but as with any calibre you will have to place the shot carefully, use a suitable projectile and limit your range.
    I would have to agree that if you are considering longer ranges on Elk then you should up the ante calibre wise.
    I tend to come from the old Elmer Keith school - use the heaviest rifle you can reliably handle i.e. hit with. Velocity hepls with hold over on long shots as does bullet weight = high bc etc.
    The final equation I believe is bullet weight - the heavier the pill the easier the kill. My .02
     
  4. deergrunt

    deergrunt Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Aussie. My buddie hunts with a 30-378 Wthy Mag. Its alot of gun, but with a muzzle break its not that bad to shoot. No matter what the game, shot placement is the key. Between the 7mm mag and 308, I would think the 7mm has a slight edge over the 308. Good luck with your choice. Your really can't wrong with either.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thanks DG
    I would personally limit my shots on Elk with a .308 to around 200 yds max and maybe add another 50 yds max 100 with 7mm.
    Even then I would not try and bust shoulders but aim for heart / lung type shots with this calibre.
    I have owned both calibres myself and have shot the most centre fire rounds on game in the.308W - actually around 10,000 on game , mostly feral pigs. I have also used the .308W in Africa where the game is very tenacious to life.
     
  6. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    7mm mags are great in theroy.

    The reality is they burn barrels quick, their hard to get accurate, the kick like a mule, has less bullet selection... The list goes on.

    Take for instance the 308 vs the 7mm rem mag. You can drive a 168 SMK from a 7mm rem at 3000 FPS with a BC of .488

    The 308 win can drive a 155 grain SMK at the same speed with the right barrel. Most agree that the 155 SMK has a BC of .450 (close the the 7mm 168) In the 30 cal selection of bullets we have 155's with BC's of .460, .475, .508 Now we are getting less wind drift, flatter trajectory and higher velocity at any range.

    Comparing the 2 we end up with 1 rig (7mm) that is delivering -264" at 1k with 723 FPE left and 87" of drift for 10 MPH (168 SMK)

    The other rig (308 win) we end up with -255" at 1k with 711 FPE and 82" of drift. 155 Lapua Scenar)

    I am not saying that the 308 can kick the 7mm's a$$ any day in trajectory or energy. There are rifle/load combos in 7mm that will kick the crap out of it. But... They still arent inherently accurate and the burn barrels and kick hard. So if you want to limit your range, pay for extra barrels, are impervious to recoil, and only need a few bullets to choose from then the 7mm is the gun for you.

    A second choice to the 308 if its not potent enough is the 300 WSM.
     
  7. Varmint Hunter

    Varmint Hunter Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a little cartridge bias here. [​IMG]
    Lets not compare apples to automobiles, or, fast 308's to slow 7mm mag's. On any given day the 7mag will outperform the 308. More retained energy and less wind drift in a fair comparison.
    [​IMG]
    The 7mag does not kick bad unless you're recoil sensitive, it's rather easy to load accurate ammo for, even though the 308 is less picky and shoots nearly anything, and the barrel should have adequate lifespan for a hunting rifle. Heck, my 7STW has nearly 1,000 round through the tube and still shoots great.
    Don't get me wrong, the 308 is a great cartridge but it can't outpower the time honered 7mm Mag.

    VH - .284 biased [​IMG]
     
  8. Kevin

    Kevin Well-Known Member

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    Correct me if I am wrong, but I am guessing that your ballistics concern is more with that of trajectory than energy, as both will kill things way out there. And you are planning on using holdovers instead of scope adjustments right? Then I think you would be better served by the 7mm.

    I have a Rem 700 BDL SS 24" barrel 7mm Mag. Weighing 7.5 lbs. I think recoil is mild. Shoots .5 inch groups at 100 yards shooting 140gr. BT's at 3340fps. or 150gr. sciroccos BC .519. at 3190fps. Pretty sure a 308 aint going to keep up with that. It will have more velocity and energy and less drop and wind drift than the 308.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Personaly I like my 30-06Ai , shooting a 180gr Nosler Partition at 2900+fps. it has and will kill Elk at 350yds and that was busting the onside shoulder on one bull in the 700lb range.
    the gun weighs about 8lbs scoped.
    any short ,light ,high horsepower rifle is going to have some recoil with out a brake.

    the question realy needs to start with what are you shooting at and how far ?
     
  10. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    Of course I am cartridge bias!! [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Who here isnt??

    I wasent trying to say that the 308 would kick the crap out of the 7mm rem mags a$$, just making a comparison that shows the 308 can hold its own and then some. Also there are some loads for the 308 that can give a 7mm a major run for its money with better all around accuracy, less kick and more economics and longer bbl life. Some shooters see the 7mm rm mag as the end all be all over the 308 win. Like was said in MTBA's post, they have bothe killed things way out there!!

    But I am still bias!! [​IMG]

    PS. Its not that I am so bias about the 308 win as I am against the 7mm bullet. Barrels and case capacity being equal, the .30 cal bullet has the upper hand over the 7mm. ie: heavier bullets, higher BC's and more velocity.

    [ 01-16-2004: Message edited by: meichele ]
     
  11. Varmint Hunter

    Varmint Hunter Well-Known Member

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    In a given bullet weight and style, wouldn't the 7mm bullet have a higher BC and better SD than the .308 bullet?
    On top of that, the 7mm should have a higher launch speed. [​IMG]

    You just can't get away from the obvious advantages of case capacity. [​IMG] Particularly in a longrange hunting application.

    VH

    I might add I thing about the .308win. Couple it with the 150gr Failsafe and it is an unbelievable killer for a half throttle cartridge. [​IMG]
     
  12. FRANK21

    FRANK21 Well-Known Member

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    My vote is for the 7mm.
    Accuracy,yes the 308 win is more "inherently accurate" but I have yet to see ANY 308 that will out perform my 7mm Rem mag at any range.
    I'm talking velocity, energy, trajectry & accuracy. I shoot the 162gr AMAX w/ a b.c. of .625 @ {way the hell higher BCthan a comparable 30 calbullet) 3050fps w/ accuracy @about.2moa. I still have over 1k ftbs of energy @ 1000yrds. 180gr berger vld bullets have nearly a.700 BC, aint a 30cal on the planet that has that. Hell the U.S. secret service uses a 7mm mag for a sniper rifle. A 160gr Nosler accubond or partition and or 160&175gr sierra bullets will plow over elk at any range you feel comfy shooting.
     
  13. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    MEichele

    They got ya guy...

    Place the 308 on the ground and slowly back away!!!

    Looks like we're outnumbered... You put up a good fight and I was watching from the sidelines in case ya needed help but it looks like a losing battle no matter if just one of us get's pummeled or the both of us..

    Dave King now slowly slinking away... 308 in hand of course. [​IMG]
     
  14. MontanaMarine

    MontanaMarine Well-Known Member

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    Here's some quickload calculations, for the heck of it:

    7mm-08
    26" barrel
    180gr Berger VLD
    46gr RL19
    63,305 lbs-psi
    2687 fps mv
    1000yd, 1554 fps/967 ft-lbs, -29.6 moa

    7mm Rem Mag
    26" bbl
    180gr Berger VLD
    64.5gr RL22
    63,480 lbs psi
    2945 fps mv
    1000yd, 1737 fps/1206 ft-lbs, -23.8 moa

    .308 Win
    26" bbl
    180gr Berger VLD
    44gr RL15
    63,896 lbs psi
    2722 fps
    1000 yd, 1380 fps, 782 ft lbs, -32.2 moa

    the 7mms can carry the freight quite well downrange.

    MM