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Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by R.C.Saul, Dec 12, 2009.
Has anyone ever done a head to head with these two?
Not sure what you mean by head to head. The 338 Edge is basically a 300 rum necked up to 338 @ about 2850fps w/300smk out of 30" tube, H20 capacity about 118gr and 338AM @ about 3300fps w/300smk out of 30" tube, H2O capacity about 172. The 338AM is a big step up from the Edge in performance and cost. I'm sure others here can answer most any question you have on these. You might could try to do a search on Shawn Carlock for the Edge and Kirby Allen for the AM. Both cartridges are outstanding.
I didnt know there was that much difference. Does anyone know the max effective range on a whitetail with either caliber?
Just guessing, having not run number, but just finished watching Shawn Carlock's first CD for the umpthteenth time this afternoon. (Recovering from surgery.
338 Edge - 1600 + yards
338 Allen Mag - Maybe about 23/2400 yards.
I think it comes down to the lowest velocity that the 300 SMK will perform terminally.
The Allan Mag is an orbit or two beyond the Edge.
Neither is a sloutch.
Roy, surgery...hope nothing too serious, get well soon. Let us know when your feeling well enough to shoot.
RC, that's a tough question to answer and basically depends on where you draw the line on a bullet's terminal performance vs the game you are shooting. I use the minimal expansion velocity of the bullet as a limiting factor. With the SMK, there is no such published velocity. From some reports I've read on this site, it seems the 300 SMK will expand below 1800 fps. So the bottom line would be to run the numbers in a balistic calc to get *your* effective range.
JBM - Calculations
Hope that helps,
Way farther than most can shoot effectively. It's hard far me to find a spot on the ranch in south Texas to max the edge out and it's 6000ac out in west texas no problem. i just dropped a 70-80# hog in its tracks at a 1000yrd with my edge. I would say edge 1500-1750 338am 1750-2200 just a guess on my part. probably has more to do with what speed you need to get your bullet to expand right
Maybe you were thinking about Kirby's 338 AX (Allen Xpress), which is the 338 Lapua case, Improved.
I used to have a list of all the proprietary Allen cartridges that listed their parent case, max velocity and their intended application...but I can't seem to find it on my hard drive this evening. It's hard to keep up with Kirby and his love for bigger and faster. Now that he has finished tinkering with the Cheytac 408 case, I think he has decided to skip the 50 cal. case and move right on to the Howitzer!
If I am not mistaken (and this happens more, the further north of fifty I get), the 338 AM is based on the 408 Cheytac case - a much larger case than the 300 RUM, on which the edge is based. Perhaps a better comparison would be between the the edge and the 338 Allen Express, which is based on the 338 Lapua Magnum case. The 338 AE case has the sides blown out and the shoulder moved forward with a slightly different angle (if I am wrong here, I am sure Kirby will jump in and correct me). I tend to think of the 338 Allen Express as a 338 Lupua Magnum that has been ackley improved.
For most of us, the ballistic difference between the edge, the 338 LM and the 338 RUM are just not big enough to bother with. It may exist on paper for those who like to debate ballistics, but in the field they all work well.
Roy, Hope you have a speedy recovery from your surgery and back out shooting those big guns again soon.
224 Allen Magnum
270 WSM case.........107 gr ULD RBBT.......3400 fps
257 Allen Xpress
300 Dakota case......142-156 gr ULD RBBT...3300-3100 fps
6.5mm Allen Xpress
300 Dakota case......142-165 gr ULD RBBT...3350-3100 fps
270 Allen Xpress
300 Dakota case......169.5 gr ULD RBBT.....3200 fps
257 Allen Magnum
338 RUM case.........156 gr ULD RBBT.......3300 fps
6.5mm Allen Magnum
338 RUM case.........165 gr ULD RBBT.......3300 fps
270 Allen Magnum
7mm RUM case.........169.5 gr ULD RBBT.....3400 fps
277 Allen Magnum
338 Lapua case.......195 gr ULD RBBT.......3200 fps
7mm Allen Magnum
338 Lapua case.......200 gr ULD RBBT.......3250 fps
338 Allen Magnum
408 Chey Tac.........300 gr ULD or SMK.....3400-3500 fps
Does Mr. Allen have a web site? Looks like a person could send lead a pretty good distance with lots of knock down using his calibers. Thanks for all the replies.
+1! Not to mention both are excellent gunsmiths and in LR hunting/shooting. Win-win either way!
He does not have a website, but the cartridge descriptions in the link below should contain "most" of Kirby's line of long range designs.