308 or 30-06 with heavy’s

[NEMTHunter]

Just remember that bullet placement trumps caliber every time.

That it does to a point. Same bullet placement with a bigger caliber does it better. As in yes dead is dead. But the bigger bullets just have more thump. Same type of bullet to same type of bullet the bigger calibers just pack more then the smaller calibers even if the bigger ones going slower.

 

[baldhunter]

OK,I'll let you be the judge.Here is the 308 and 30-06 with a 150gr,168gr,180gr and a 200gr bullet.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Heavies (180 and above) are not a real good companion of the .308 Win.! memtb

You've obviously never shot any heavies in a .308 Win... The heavies are phenomenal, and really closes the gap between the .308 Win and what the 6.5CM guys love to tout about the ballistics and BC.

 

[Capt RB]

For everyone that thinks perfect placement with a puny round will kill better than poor placement with big round watch this

 

[memtb]

You've obviously never shot any heavies in a .308 Win... The heavies are phenomenal, and really closes the gap between the .308 Win and what the 6.5CM guys love to tout about the ballistics and BC.

Correct.....nothing heavier than a 180! I tried to clarify my comment later.....stipulating, for use on "Game" at extended ranges. In keeping the velocities high enough for reliable expansion.....the 30-06 "trumps" the .308 Win.....the 300 Win. Mag. "trumps" the 30-06.....and the beat goes on! If it's paper or steel......it matters "not"!. Except it takes longer to score the targets.....as it takes longer for the bullets to arrive! memtb

 

[John Klingenberg]

What would be best, or highest velocity in a 20" 1-10 twist barrel? 308 Win or a 30-06? Will be shooting 180-215 grain bullets.

Brian

I'd go with the 30-06 for a couple reasons. You've got more case capacity to make up for lost barrel, longer neck that doesnt intrude into case capacity when you load the long bullets. I hunted thick brush with a 30-06 cut to 18 inches for years. Never missed the velocity at reasonable hunting distances. That old 220 grain roundnose really puts stuff down. If the barrel is 1-10 you may want to check a bullet stability chart for any of the new long bullets before buying....you really want full stability if you're threading it through a can. And make sure you test it before you put your suppressor on. My last thought is if you wanted to replace that barrel if you didnt like it. 30-06 barrels are usually cheaper and easy to find.

 

[MudRunner2005]

So sorry, I was thinking of hunting.....again! I forget about paper punchers and metal dingers! If you're hunting at shorter ranges where the limited velocities will not hinder expansion, or your hunting steel or paper.....then heavy is fine! Obviously.....this is my opinion! memtb

You should run a proper ballistics chart to recheck your math... The heavies 200+ grains push the .308 Win to a 1,000+ yard capable deer rifle...And 1,500+ on targets.

For the record, when I talk about "hunting capabilities", the biggest game animal we have around here is whitetail deer...And wild hogs, black panthers, and the occasional small black bear...But those are in a whole different league. So, 99.999% of the time, I'm referencing killing whitetail deer. Which are super-tenacious animals with the strongest will to live I've ever seen. Watched one get shot with a .50BMG from LESS than 100 yards, and it still took-off running! I bet if you did that to an elk, moose, or caribou, it would just fall over, when it finally expired.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Correct.....nothing heavier than a 180! I tried to clarify my comment later.....stipulating, for use on "Game" at extended ranges. In keeping the velocities high enough for reliable expansion.....the 30-06 "trumps" the .308 Win.....the 300 Win. Mag. "trumps" the 30-06.....and the beat goes on! If it's paper or steel......it matters "not"!. Except it takes longer to score the targets.....as it takes longer for the bullets to arrive! memtb

You know, we always talk about expansion, but yet, MILLIONS of animals for hundreds of years were killed with solid lead roundballs and minnieball rounds from muskets... They didn't have hollow points or minimum expansion velocities to worry about... Anything that pokes a hole through the right thing(s) or disrupts the CNS on an animal, will kill it.

The .30-06 will never "trump" the .308 Win. The gap between them are so close that it's almost a wash. The .300WM is a much bigger gap between it and the .30-06. For the record, I own all 3 cartridges, and am not even a fan of the .30-06 or .300WM.

 

[Capt RB]

Correct.....nothing heavier than a 180! I tried to clarify my comment later.....stipulating, for use on "Game" at extended ranges. In keeping the velocities high enough for reliable expansion.....the 30-06 "trumps" the .308 Win.....the 300 Win. Mag. "trumps" the 30-06.....and the beat goes on! If it's paper or steel......it matters "not"!. Except it takes longer to score the targets.....as it takes longer for the bullets to arrive! memtb

You see many people running a 300 win that shoots the 208 or 215 at 2850 accurately. You can get close to 2800fps with a 215 in the 06 with a 26" barrel 2600+ in the 308 My 308 is a 12tw and 2730fps with the 195tmk is max but it shoots there well

 

[memtb]

I just did a little math (using approximates for values)! A .308 Win. with a 200 grain bullet gives 2600 fps (I'm being generous) muzzle velocity, has a flight time of 1.6 seconds for 1000 yards....no self respecting hunter would give an animal, especially a whitetail, 1.6 seconds of potential movement. And, this does not include the shooters response time....which adds approximately another .2 seconds ( brain to trigger pull event time) to the flight time. We are also are down to approximately 1450 fps velocity at 1000 yards, well below reliable expansion velocities.....even with a Berger! Again, for paper or steel.....all of this is a non-issue! For animals, especially game animals .....ethics should play a roll in choices made for "long distance hunting"!

You mentioned the "tenacity for life" exhibited by a whitetail.....do you not agree that the whitetail deserves the respect to a quick death?

You do not have to agree....but I believe these are valid issues to consider when shooting game animals! memtb

 

[memtb]

You know, we always talk about expansion, but yet, MILLIONS of animals for hundreds of years were killed with solid lead roundballs and minnieball rounds from muskets... They didn't have hollow points or minimum expansion velocities to worry about... Anything that pokes a hole through the right thing(s) or disrupts the CNS on an animal, will kill it.

The .30-06 will never "trump" the .308 Win. The gap between them are so close that it's almost a wash. The .300WM is a much bigger gap between it and the .30-06. For the record, I own all 3 cartridges, and am not even a fan of the .30-06 or .300WM.

When you start shooting a wide metplat, bullet from a .308 Win., you will have a more lethal bullet than a high BC, .308 is capable of. A nice wide wound channel, created by a wide metplat bullet is what gives it it's lethality. A high BC bullet that fails to expand, will create very little tissue damage....essentially a sharp point puncture wound. A wound very similar to "stepping on a nail"....the tissue parts, and with it's elasticity closes up the wound. Minimal tissue destruction and very little bleeding to the outside of body! That wide metplat bullet will have a detrimental effect on your trajectories and travel time!

Of those millions of animals taken with round balls, or sabot musket how many hundred thousand where not killed cleanly. I prefer to maintain a small degree of hunting ethics! memtb

 

[sirius27c]

You know, we always talk about expansion, but yet, MILLIONS of animals for hundreds of years were killed with solid lead roundballs and minnieball rounds from muskets... They didn't have hollow points or minimum expansion velocities to worry about... Anything that pokes a hole through the right thing(s) or disrupts the CNS on an animal, will kill it.

The .30-06 will never "trump" the .308 Win. The gap between them are so close that it's almost a wash. The .300WM is a much bigger gap between it and the .30-06. For the record, I own all 3 cartridges, and am not even a fan of the .30-06 or .300WM.

I own all three as well, and have shot paper with all a lot at 1000 yards. They are pretty close, but if you keep things apples for apples, a 300wm is 10% above a 30-06 which is 10% above a 308. If I were making a living poking 20-30 holes at a time in paper at 1000 yards, I'd use the .308 with a 155 palma. Hunting whitetail at 500 yards, 30-06 with a 185, hunting elk at 500 yards 300wm with a 205-215. +1 to the man with the hang time argument, I've seen an elk shot and killed at 1100 yards.... with a 50 bmg. Critters can easily move enough to miss or lightly wound a trophy animal in a fraction of a second. Even with an adequate rifle, it ain't a for sure deal until it drops dead.

 

[MudRunner2005]

MILLIONS of people have died in battle from FMJ's... Expansion doesn't really mean crap. Placement means everything.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I own all three as well, and have shot paper with all a lot at 1000 yards. They are pretty close, but if you keep things apples for apples, a 300wm is 10% above a 30-06 which is 10% above a 308. If I were making a living poking 20-30 holes at a time in paper at 1000 yards, I'd use the .308 with a 155 palma. Hunting whitetail at 500 yards, 30-06 with a 185, hunting elk at 500 yards 300wm with a 205-215. +1 to the man with the hang time argument, I've seen an elk shot and killed at 1100 yards.... with a 50 bmg. Critters can easily move enough to miss or lightly wound a trophy animal in a fraction of a second. Even with an adequate rifle, it ain't a for sure deal until it drops dead.

Everyone has an opinion. I've spent a lot of time with all 3, as well. I just never was impressed by the .30-06 or .300WM...Even with modern bullets and powder. To me, if you already own a .308 Win, you gain nothing by trading it for a .30-06. Now, if you stepped-up to something like the .300 Sherman, which has ****-near .300WM ballistics, then yeah, that would be a justifiable and noticeable upgrade over the .308 Win. But I never saw the hype with the .30-06. The .300WM is also one I never saw the hype for, especially comparing it side-by-side to the 7mmRemMag (my personal favorite all-around hunting cartridge). I also never cared for the .270 Win...As a 7mm fan, I found it pointless to shoot lighter bullets that are only .007" smaller in diameter. Without a doubt, I'm more of a 7mm supporter, but I've always had a sweet-spot for the .308 Win, and cartridges based off that case.