300 Below cryo process on my 338 lapua

hoverp

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I just sent off my new Savage 110 FCP 338 lapua barreled action to 300 Below for a deep freeze.


Anyone else use them and if so your thoughts /results. My main goal is to get better throat life and reduce heat dispersion as best I can through this stress relief process.
 
Did you validate the rifles accuracy before? I have often wondered if this process really relieves stress and improves accuracy. Please let us know your first hand results.

Thanks

Jeff
 
Did you validate the rifles accuracy before? I have often wondered if this process really relieves stress and improves accuracy. Please let us know your first hand results.

Thanks

Jeff

Broz: My wife is a metallurgist and Ive asked her from time to time what this does....and the bottom line she told me is IF the company doing it...doesn't take ( in this case) the barrel back thru a complete heat treating cycle....it doesn't do diddly squat! She has done her job for more than 30 years...so she knoes "a tad" about heat treating...etc
 
Broz: My wife is a metallurgist and Ive asked her from time to time what this does....and the bottom line she told me is IF the company doing it...doesn't take ( in this case) the barrel back thru a complete heat treating cycle....it doesn't do diddly squat! She has done her job for more than 30 years...so she knoes "a tad" about heat treating...etc
The reading I've done on the subject tells me that to recieve maximum benefit what really needs to happen is that both the heat treating and cry treatment needs to be done before any machining.

If I were in the Op's shoes what I'd probably do is after the initial break in is complete pull have the whole thing melonited, or at least the barrel and maybe cryo treat after.

Is there any guranteed that either/both is going to make a significant difference? No, but it might be worth doing as an experiment.

If nothing else both processes seem to help reduce fouling and thus make cleaning easier during the service life of the barrel.
 
I did not shoot prior. I figured for 85 bucks i would try it. I know that Ill never know the comparative difference for this particular barrel but I wanted to try it.

Ill let you know how it goes.

Patrick
 
Cryo is for easier maching, never heard applied to barrel life. One of my gunsmiths has a big cryo process and does a lot of it. He builds many LR and comp guns and never markets cryo for barrel life..

IF you after better barrel life, then after break in, send the barrel off to be melonite coated. cost is $65 and shipping so under $100. Turn around is 2-3 weeks including shipping normally.

I have done two so far (338 Lapua AI and 300 WSM). As of now looks like it is worth it. We will see on the barrel life.
 
im sure that most of the people on here know who " kenny jarrett" is..for those who dont kenny is the founder of jarret rifles also known as the beanfield rifle. i just finished reading an old artical in RIFLE magazine march 2011 in which he says cryo is b.s...tho i havent personally done this or know of anyone who has i would tend to believe as he does you "move" metal by heat not cold..cold makes it brittle. but to each his own thats why everyone does thier thing and no 2 gun owners or shooters for that matter believe that thier is only 1 opinion on anything..thats why we build---shoot---reload---scope---and finish to our own beliefs and to what makes us happy...good luck and have fun shooting
 
I had my Weatherby done when I 1st heard (1990's) of this- Blackstone (?)out of Texas. Read an article years later, from a major barrel Company- said " couldn't prove it did anything or they would do it. You just have to believe. Theory sounds good to me !
 
im sure that most of the people on here know who " kenny jarrett" is..for those who dont kenny is the founder of jarret rifles also known as the beanfield rifle. i just finished reading an old artical in RIFLE magazine march 2011 in which he says cryo is b.s...tho i havent personally done this or know of anyone who has i would tend to believe as he does you "move" metal by heat not cold..cold makes it brittle. but to each his own thats why everyone does thier thing and no 2 gun owners or shooters for that matter believe that thier is only 1 opinion on anything..thats why we build---shoot---reload---scope---and finish to our own beliefs and to what makes us happy...good luck and have fun shooting
Metal "moves" with both heating and cooling. The more extreme the heating and cooling the more movement. That's just simple physics. As for brittle, extrme cold makes metals brittle, but they do not necessarily remain brittle once returned to a mild/standard temp.

"Tempering" of metal is accomplished by both heating and cooling alternately.
 
Metal "moves" with both heating and cooling. The more extreme the heating and cooling the more movement. That's just simple physics. As for brittle, extrme cold makes metals brittle, but they do not necessarily remain brittle once returned to a mild/standard temp.

"Tempering" of metal is accomplished by both heating and cooling alternately.


At the place I sent the barreled action, they do hot and cold gig.

FWIW, from the site.

"To relieve internal stresses in a rifle the proprietary CRYO-Barrel Stress Relief thermally processes the firearm barrel with a 600 degree range. It cycles the entire rifle barrel slowly and carefully (under a programmed computer profile) through a wide temperature range, with both "hot" and "cold" temperatures, in a process that can last more than 72 hours. Cryo Accurizing works"


we shall see!
 
A complete and total waste of time and money, at least in so far as the claims made by the cryo treatment fans where rifle performance is concerned. They don't shoot any more accurately after being treated, the don't foul any less (or even any differently) than an untreated barrel, and they don't last a bit longer than an untreated barrel. I ran a blind test of this many years ago with three Hart barrels from the same production run, chambered identically with the same reamer, and fired a with a control series of ten 10-round groups through each barrel after they were broken in. All of the ammo for this (and the subsequent control groups) were from the same lot of bullets, powder, cases and primers. After the baseline accuracy was established, two of the three barrels were sent out to two different cryo treatment firms by our plant engineer. When they returned, all three of the barrels were refired using the same series of ten, 10-round control groups. There was virtually no change in any of the barrels. A fourth barrel was added here, but was visibly different and hence not a part of the true "blind" test. This was one of the Blackstar barrels someone has previouly mentioned. They'd heard about the series I was running and wanted their barrel included in the testing. I obliged, and ran this one with the three Harts, giving it the same sort of eval. The point was to establish the baseline accuracy, before and after cryo treating, and to revisit this same evaluation every 1,000 rounds until the barrels were shot out. Once they were pulled from active testing, the identity of the cryo'ed barrels would be revealed. To make a long story short (the full article was published in Precision Shooting Magazine), we spent over 17,000 rounds through these four barrels, and saw virtually no difference in barrel life, accuracy, fouling . . . or anything else for that matter. All four barrels quit shooting at about the 3,500-4,000 round mark, which was perfectly typical for Hart's chambered for the 308 Winchester for our purposes (I had to have consistent sub-1/2 MOA 10-round groups, without fail). In short, no gain whatsoever.

Cryo treatment is used in a number of industries, and I have no doubt that it works well for those industries. I've heard several gunsmiths say that barrel blanks that have been cryo treated seem to machine easier, and I don't doubt that. However, I don't belive that the process can do anything to resist the type of erosion we see in rifle barrels, affect accuracy or fouling. As I said, machining and/or machinability is another matter entirely, and I'll leave that call to others.
 
Kevin, I had a new tube once that would string pretty badly. I was prompted to have it cryoed to remove a "stress monster" I instead opted to trash the tube and replace it. I guess I don't like pouring perfume on a pig. What do you think about cryo removing stress issues?

Thanks for your informative post above.

Jeff
 
C&P from Lilja Precision Rifle Barrels FAQ ...

Q. What is your opinion of the deep cryogenic processing of barrels?

A. The cryogenic treating of barrels at a temperature of -300 degrees below zero has been a hot topic of discussion lately. Our short answer is that it will not harm your barrel but we are not completely convinced of all of the benefits claimed by some. The only benefits that we feel are likely to result from the treatment are possibly a longer barrel life and a slight increase in machinability.
Claims for increased accuracy through stress relief are not founded in our opinion. When barrels are button rifled no material is removed, it is just displaced. This causes stresses to be formed in the steel. If these stresses are not removed problems will result. These negative conditions include warping of the barrel during other machining operations, an increase in the bore diameter towards the muzzle end of the barrel during the contouring phase, and in the extreme, lengthwise splitting of the barrel. Also, if there are stresses remaining in the barrel they can be slowly released as a barrel warms up during firing. This causes the barrel to actually move during the course of shooting, causing inaccuracy.
In our testing we have found that the only effective means to completely remove the types of stresses introduced during rifling are with conventional heat treating using elevated temperatures. The -300 degree treatment alone will not remove these stresses. We have been told by a knowledgeable metallurgist that the deep cold treatment will, at best, remove up to 6% of the remaining stresses in the type of steel used for rifle barrels. The key words here are remaining stresses. In other words if the barrel was not stress relieved conventionally, then only 6% of the original stress will be removed. If the barrel has been treated conventionally with heat and then brought through the -300 degree cycle, up to 6% of any remaining stresses could be removed by the cold treatment. We do know through our testing that the cold treatment alone will not remove any significant amount of stress and that the problems outlined above concerning stress will remain in the barrel.
So, because of the very limited amount of stress that could be removed with the cold treatment (if the barrel has been properly stress relieved with heat as our barrels are) we do not believe that there can be much if any accuracy benefit to the -300 degree treatment of our barrels. It is for these reasons that we feel the cold process has very little potential for increasing the accuracy of our barrels. In our opinion, other than the removal of these stresses, there are no other mechanical factors involved that could benefit accuracy in a rifle barrel, resulting from a heat treating operation, either hot or cold.
For reasons not completely understood however there may be an increase in the wear resistance of the steel. This type of wear however does not contribute greatly to barrel erosion. We invite you to read our comments on this type of barrel wear in the question regarding the use of moly coated bullets. Another possible side benefit to the freezing process is a slight increase in its machinability.

Post Script: Since I originally wrote this an excellent article by Kevin Thomas of Sierra Bullets was printed in the September, 1998 issue of Precision Shooting magazine. Mr. Thomas found, in a controlled test, that there was little benefit to deep freezing match grade barrels. He could see no difference in accuracy but probably a slight increase in useful life. I would encourage anyone interested in this subject to take a look at this article.


Lilja Precision Rifle Barrels - FAQ
 
Jeff,

Sorry, but can't really say in that context. Frankly, I think the stresses are either induced or avoided during the earliest stages of manufacture. That is, how they're drilled, whether they're given subsequent heat treating while they're being profiled, and perhaps even more importantly, if they're stressed during that profiling or other machining operations. I think the ideal play here is to avoid inducing the stresses in the first place. There's a balance point here, since this means doing things slowly, which increases production times, and essentially makes the barrel cost more. In some of the more volume oriented shops, the barrel makijng process can be brutal. Barrels being contoured in (literally) one pass, taking heavy cuts that remove massive amounts of metal. I've seen some shops that yank a button through a drilled blank in as little as six (6) seconds. Things like this are going to create problems, that I'm not at all sure can be removed later, by any process. They may lessen them and show some improvement, but I think the best way to go here is to go with a barrel that hasn't been subjected to such tortures in the first place. Better off for a machinist or metallurgist to chime in here, since they'd know better than I.
 
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