.270 whitetail bullet shopping again, for the last time.

[orifdoc]

The high shoulder spot is great, but not nearly so high up the body as many people think.
There's a lot of deer between the "top of the back" and the spine.

 

[wv270wsm]

The high shoulder spot is great, but not nearly so high up the body as many people think.
There's a lot of deer between the "top of the back" and the spine.

Yes I generally shoot at the top third of the shoulder as not to miss . Even if I don't hit nothing spine related the broke shoulders does the trick. Everytime

 

[Wylie1965]

Ok, so many years ago when I first started handloading I started off with the Nosler ballistic tip. I shot my nice buck with it perfectly broadside at 110 yards and the bullet completely exploded, it literally just made it to the vitals and that's it, the BT in my book was a varmint round, never shot another one since. I am told they made some changes to them but with all the nice bullets out there I won't give them another chance. Next up, for many years I shot the Nosler Partition. I loved the killing of that round, however I never could get it to shoot accurately out of my rifle, somewhere around 2-3 inch groups at 100 yards no matter what I tried. Next up, Speer Grand Slam. Shot many deer with great success, better accuracy, however I'm not of fan of the soft blunt lead nose that gets damaged and my hunting spots have changed over the years and I am reaching out to longer distances. Next up, the Barnes triple shock, unbelievable accuracy, honest 1 inch groups at 200 yards off a bench. Shot around 4 nice bucks with them, lost one. I will no longer shoot a solid copper. The picture perfect mushrooms in gel are all cute and all, but they don't kill deer the way the others do, some will argue but that's just the facts. I have hit deer perfectly with the Barnes and got little to no blood, deer have run off almost like they were not even hit, only to see them tip over 50-100 yards later. So, no more Barnes, and here I am now, looking again. I have thoughts on trying these options. Federal Trophy bonded tip, Hornady INTERBOND, not interlock, Nosler Accubond, and maybe even the Swift Scirocco 2. Again, this would be in the .270 Winchester round, in WI deer at ranges of 0-450 yards. I only want to do this one last time, enlighten me, give me advice, give me horror stories, tell me what to do..

Fellow WI hunter here... My only addition to what's already posted is the Berger 140 gr or 150 gr VLD hunting bullets. I have NOT had much success with 130 gr bullets or less with whitetails. Like you said, bullets "shrapnelling" upon impact. Those were Hornady's, but I have since moved on to Bergers, Noslers and others. Good luck.

 

[Goldengun]

LVJ76 glad you liked the pics. I am trying to take more pics like this to share because people ask about bullet performance sometimes. I do strongly believe people want to put the animals down quickly and Humanely. Hope this helps you. Its easy to find bullets that work just close up. It also easy to find bullets that work good at long distance. It is very hard to find 1 bullet that does both. I have a great success rate with these Berger's.

I think this kind of combined info is what people want to know, I know I do. I've been shooting 130

 

[Goldengun]

I think this kind of combined info is what people want to know, I know I do. I've been shooting 130

oops. berger vld's in my 260AI with great results, but haven't went beyond 300 yards with them. Planning on reloading with 135 classics. However, this was a 270 thread.

 

[Hespco]

If deer is your thing , hard to beat the Barnes 110gr TTSX this side of 500 yds. Also similar Hammer bullet. Another plus , no bloody mess with several lbs of destroyed blood shot meat. Eat right up to thr hole. Nosler 100gr Partition , almost as good.

 

[Starlite]

If deer is your thing , hard to beat the Barnes 110gr TTSX this side of 500 yds. Also similar Hammer bullet. Another plus , no bloody mess with several lbs of destroyed blood shot meat. Eat right up to thr hole. Nosler 100gr Partition , almost as good.

Man I'm fully on board with the Barnes bullet. The 127gr in my 6.5cm was deadly last fall. This year I'm hunting whitetail with my new 270 win (First time 270 hunting). In fact just today I ranged it to a 200y ZERO with the 110 TTSX using Hybrid 100V, Norma brass and Fed Mag Primer; under 1MOA with muzzle velocity @ 3225FPS.

 

[HBoothe]

Ok, so many years ago when I first started handloading I started off with the Nosler ballistic tip. I shot my nice buck with it perfectly broadside at 110 yards and the bullet completely exploded, it literally just made it to the vitals and that's it, the BT in my book was a varmint round, never shot another one since. I am told they made some changes to them but with all the nice bullets out there I won't give them another chance. Next up, for many years I shot the Nosler Partition. I loved the killing of that round, however I never could get it to shoot accurately out of my rifle, somewhere around 2-3 inch groups at 100 yards no matter what I tried. Next up, Speer Grand Slam. Shot many deer with great success, better accuracy, however I'm not of fan of the soft blunt lead nose that gets damaged and my hunting spots have changed over the years and I am reaching out to longer distances. Next up, the Barnes triple shock, unbelievable accuracy, honest 1 inch groups at 200 yards off a bench. Shot around 4 nice bucks with them, lost one. I will no longer shoot a solid copper. The picture perfect mushrooms in gel are all cute and all, but they don't kill deer the way the others do, some will argue but that's just the facts. I have hit deer perfectly with the Barnes and got little to no blood, deer have run off almost like they were not even hit, only to see them tip over 50-100 yards later. So, no more Barnes, and here I am now, looking again. I have thoughts on trying these options. Federal Trophy bonded tip, Hornady INTERBOND, not interlock, Nosler Accubond, and maybe even the Swift Scirocco 2. Again, this would be in the .270 Winchester round, in WI deer at ranges of 0-450 yards. I only want to do this one last time, enlighten me, give me advice, give me horror stories, tell me what to do..

Okay, first a little jab...jack up the scope, drive a .243 W under it, set it back down. I dunno how bit the WT are where you are but in north central Texas they're small and my wife blew a *tunnel* through one with a 100gr soft nose Winchester white box round out of her .243 W. The .270 W is a cannon...considering the little WTs we have around here. Just sayin'.

Triple Shock....skip the solid copper bullets. Unless you're in California or maybe the Republik of Mass, you don't have to have them I don't think (laws/regs in your area may differ). If you're in one of those places...move. Really. But the solid copper bullets have been a huge disappointment to me. Poked holes through pigs while not actually killing pigs...at least not efficiently...squealing, hobbled, running off wounded. I tried them in .224 Valkyrie for pigs, and at about 3k FPS. Then I sobered up and got a 6.5 Grendel...but that's another story. Back to the solids...while that opinion/experience was gained by putting boots on the ground and rounds into pigs, this information didn't hurt any: https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Homogenous+copper+bullets+can+be+inhumane.html

On topic: Hornady makes the SST which has been reported to be an effective bullet but which I have not used. Some will scream bloody murder but "boots on the ground and rounds into critters" says that Hornady ELD bullets are effective on game. Your mileage may vary, and I am not a deer hunter (hogs, coyotes, bobcats for me), and they may just poke holes in deer...but the damage even on small stuff like bunnies (a hunting buddy of mine will blast one occasionally...<grrr>) and raccoons (I kill all I can...miserable bastards) is appreciable. Hornady also makes ELD-X bullets but I've not tried them. The BC on the ELD is pretty darned good (for all the ones I've used from .224 and .264 calibers) and I get 1 MOA or just under with a 16" 6.5 Grendel at 200 yds in an AR using an "off the shelf" Ballistics Advantage barrel...darned fine for my needs.

Off topic (sort of): However, regarding your comment about a deer running "50-100 yards" and then falling over, these critters (hogs, coyotes, bobcats, deer) are not the wimpy mammals we humans are. They get wounded/scared and they are all-in on "flight". While I normally do not hunt deer, I shot one about 2 years ago for a friend who was at work (firefighter, 2nd to last day of season). Good shot placement, 50 yards away, 224 Valkyrie, mortal wound through the heart/lung area..still ran about 100+ feet and that was with good shot placement which caused heavy damage in the heart/lung area. My wife's deer with the .243 W went at least 150 feet with a tunnel through both lungs. I've shot coyotes and hogs through the lungs and watched them run every bit of 100 yards (rarely, but it happens). The lungs are Jell-o...completely useless, the arterial system is largely intact, though, and the animal runs until the oxygen in its blood is depleted. Yes, I've cut a couple of animals open to inspect the lungs/innards. The better way, I think and have seen, to get an animal to fall right over while reducing the likelihood of a miss, is to shoot it in the neck, near/just above the shoulder if possible. There're a lot of "transmission lines" in the neck. I'd wager that your Nosler BTs from the .270 would have dropped right there anything you shot with it if you'd put the bullet near the center of the neck. I shot one of the largest hogs I've shot (maybe 250# realistic, not "it's huge and puffy, I bet it weighs 400#!") with a short-barreled (10") AR in .223R with a 60-something grain something or another (almost 2 and half years ago and I had alternating rounds in the mag, don't know if it was the 63gr soft nose or the 69gr match) right in the neck at about 20 yards (very close, yes) and it went down right there and never took another step. It wasn't dead, but I fixed that right quick and it was easy because it was right there. I've since shot a number of pigs in the neck (sometimes on purpose, sometimes just a lucky strike as the group flees) and they are consistently a "drops right there" hit. If I get to stalk up on a really big one, I definitely shoot for the neck to give myself the most likelihood of killing it. Do not discount the cartilage layer/shield on the larger boars...

Anyway...my thoughts. Always meant be helpful and apologies if it's not.

--HC

 

[Starlite]

Okay, first a little jab...jack up the scope, drive a .243 W under it, set it back down. I dunno how bit the WT are where you are but in north central Texas they're small and my wife blew a *tunnel* through one with a 100gr soft nose Winchester white box round out of her .243 W. The .270 W is a cannon...considering the little WTs we have around here. Just sayin'.

Triple Shock....skip the solid copper bullets. Unless you're in California or maybe the Republik of Mass, you don't have to have them I don't think (laws/regs in your area may differ). If you're in one of those places...move. Really. But the solid copper bullets have been a huge disappointment to me. Poked holes through pigs while not actually killing pigs...at least not efficiently...squealing, hobbled, running off wounded. I tried them in .224 Valkyrie for pigs, and at about 3k FPS. Then I sobered up and got a 6.5 Grendel...but that's another story. Back to the solids...while that opinion/experience was gained by putting boots on the ground and rounds into pigs, this information didn't hurt any: https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Homogenous+copper+bullets+can+be+inhumane.html

On topic: Hornady makes the SST which has been reported to be an effective bullet but which I have not used. Some will scream bloody murder but "boots on the ground and rounds into critters" says that Hornady ELD bullets are effective on game. Your mileage may vary, and I am not a deer hunter (hogs, coyotes, bobcats for me), and they may just poke holes in deer...but the damage even on small stuff like bunnies (a hunting buddy of mine will blast one occasionally...<grrr>) and raccoons (I kill all I can...miserable bastards) is appreciable. Hornady also makes ELD-X bullets but I've not tried them. The BC on the ELD is pretty darned good (for all the ones I've used from .224 and .264 calibers) and I get 1 MOA or just under with a 16" 6.5 Grendel at 200 yds in an AR using an "off the shelf" Ballistics Advantage barrel...darned fine for my needs.

Off topic (sort of): However, regarding your comment about a deer running "50-100 yards" and then falling over, these critters (hogs, coyotes, bobcats, deer) are not the wimpy mammals we humans are. They get wounded/scared and they are all-in on "flight". While I normally do not hunt deer, I shot one about 2 years ago for a friend who was at work (firefighter, 2nd to last day of season). Good shot placement, 50 yards away, 224 Valkyrie, mortal wound through the heart/lung area..still ran about 100+ feet and that was with good shot placement which caused heavy damage in the heart/lung area. My wife's deer with the .243 W went at least 150 feet with a tunnel through both lungs. I've shot coyotes and hogs through the lungs and watched them run every bit of 100 yards (rarely, but it happens). The lungs are Jell-o...completely useless, the arterial system is largely intact, though, and the animal runs until the oxygen in its blood is depleted. Yes, I've cut a couple of animals open to inspect the lungs/innards. The better way, I think and have seen, to get an animal to fall right over while reducing the likelihood of a miss, is to shoot it in the neck, near/just above the shoulder if possible. There're a lot of "transmission lines" in the neck. I'd wager that your Nosler BTs from the .270 would have dropped right there anything you shot with it if you'd put the bullet near the center of the neck. I shot one of the largest hogs I've shot (maybe 250# realistic, not "it's huge and puffy, I bet it weighs 400#!") with a short-barreled (10") AR in .223R with a 60-something grain something or another (almost 2 and half years ago and I had alternating rounds in the mag, don't know if it was the 63gr soft nose or the 69gr match) right in the neck at about 20 yards (very close, yes) and it went down right there and never took another step. It wasn't dead, but I fixed that right quick and it was easy because it was right there. I've since shot a number of pigs in the neck (sometimes on purpose, sometimes just a lucky strike as the group flees) and they are consistently a "drops right there" hit. If I get to stalk up on a really big one, I definitely shoot for the neck to give myself the most likelihood of killing it. Do not discount the cartilage layer/shield on the larger boars...

Anyway...my thoughts. Always meant be helpful and apologies if it's not.

--HC

Wow there is a lot to unravel here but I'll only comment on the copper pills that you loathe. I'm not sure Y. if your hitting critters at over 3000 FPS with monos and being dissatisfied, then your not understanding wounds and ballistics well despite looking at some innerds. Your copper was flying to fast, they'll pass through without much expansion. Same holds true for say a traditional Berger, If it's over 3000fps it wont act as described and designed; it will grenade within 2" of entering an animal and dump it's energy before they get to the vitals. If you look at LR bullets; their not only designed to have a high BC but also to mushroom at lowered velocity. They too will grenade if too high velocity. Now...I'm certainly not saying a deer of any size can't be taken with a high or low velocity projectile. I'm saying if you don't understand how a cartridge is designed to work then you shouldn't be disappointed at its performance if you don't get an expectant outcome.
Just my 2c

 

[BoomFlop]

Wait what?
So your saying that if a copper is driven too fast, it does not expand and just pencils through. BUT a cup and core hollow point driven to fast expands too quickly? That doesn't make sense.

A copper bullet should be driven as fast as possible to initiate expansion.

I would agree that a cup and core if driven too fast will expand too quickly.

Have a great evening.
Steve

 

[Hespco]

Have been using the mono copper bullets since 1994 & have never failed me. A 6.5 with the 120gr Barnes. Thru both shoulders. Have taken a fair amount of elk over the years with no problem. Have to admit , no pigs in my neck of the woods so can't comment on that.

 

[Krosebil]

I haven't seen much Berger responses but I have had wonderful results with the 130 Berger VLD Hunter in my 270 Win. Flys like a dart in both of my 270's and has not lost me a Wisconsin deer yet.

 

[Stgraves260]

Pictures are what teach us how a bullet performs, so no I dont mind them at all, thanks for sharing.

From what I gather Bergers perform similar or equal to an SST bullet, dumps all the energy and causes if not instant, a collapse within seconds. Question, I'm curious if the bergers provide an exit wound like the SST? I am still to recover one, they always exit.

Hornady design the SST Built for lite thin skin game animals. The inter bond are for heavy thick skin animals. So if I used those 2 bullets it would depend on what I was hunting and how far my shot was. Depending on the caliber rifle I was shooting would make a big difference also. With my 260 Rem a 140 grain SST pretty much Disintegrates under 300 yards. So on deer I shoot them in the neck. So at 300 yards or less I would choose the Inter-bond. After 500 yards my 260 don't mushroom the inter-bonds to my licking, but the SSTs will. A lot of people have had great success with the SSTs so I know they work. I just can't keep switching back and forth from the SST to the Inter-bond do to the ranges I shoot. That's why I chose the Berger VLDs. Shot placement to me is more important than anything.

 

[tribb]

Either the Accubond or the Partition are hard to beat. In my experience, the Accubond is great on deer sized game below 3000fps and staying away from large bones/shoulders. They're great killers but badly fragment In those situations and likely will not exit. Partitions are the gold standard...I know, I know, they're dated...but they just plain work. At the distances you suggest, you should be GTG with either one.

"Partitions" absolutely need to be loaded close to maximum for your rifle!They like near max velocity and seem to shoot more accurately that way !