25-06 Case stretching - what have you experienced?

[wallypedal]

For those with a bunch of experience with this caliber: What is an acceptable or standard amount of case stretching for standard not overly hot loads? What is the worst you've experienced? I'm loading for an Encore, and am using a full length sizer set so I have .001 headspace - some clearance is necessary in this action. It seems like my WW brass was plenty long to start with, but already needs trimmed after two firings. Kinda hoping the stretching drops back from that!! I'm being careful with pressures, inside neck lube, etc. Hornady die has a pretty slick expander. Not crimping.
Thanks!
Tom

 

[Fiftydriver]

Tom,

You have several factors playing against you with your situation.

One is that the 25-06 has a relatively shallow shoulder angle and there will be some case stretching no matter what you load to unless you keep pressures under 50,000 psi which simply is not practical with this modern high pressure round.

Second is the fact your shooting the 25-06 in the Encore. The fact that you need to full length size the cases for the Encore will lead you to more case stretching with each firing. You are correct in that you need this case clearance for the Encore to function properly. In fact, I have yet to see an Encore or Contender that did not shoot measureably better with FL sized cases then even cases that are snug in chamber but still allow the receiver to close properly.

Because of this you will get more case stretching then with any bolt gun because you have to size the cases more. When you fire the round, the case gets a run at that shallow shoulder in the chamber and is driven into it slightly more with every firing. When the pressure builds enough, the case expands and grips onto the chamber walls and then the head of the case is forced back against the receiver and this is where most of your case stretching occurs.

If you could partially FL size your cases, there would not be this driving action into the shallow shoulder and case stretching would be reduced greatly.

Add to that that there is some degree of frame stretching in any break action receiver which will also lead to increased case stretching.

Simply put, you may need to trim your case after each firing and you may even have to replace your cases after 3-4 firings. Just watch for any case head seperation signs which are not that uncommon with the Encore.

A sharper shoulder angle would certainly help you out with limiting some case stretching but there would still be some there no matter what you do with the Encore design.

Just the nature of the beast. If you understand that and can live with it, the Encore is a great rifle but it does have its limits and issues to deal with and live with.

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[Guest]

I have been shooting and reloading for the .25-06 since I bought my first one in "68" it was a wildcat at that time. I never did find a .25-06 case that didn't like to stretch. Pretty much had to keep trimming the necks on each loading and it just became another necessary step in reloading. Really didn't seem to cause a problem and could get as many as 8 to 10 reloadings without much problem unless I was pushing it hard. Right now I am working with a .25-06 AI and hoping that the neck stretch will be a bit less with that case and thus a couple more reloadings per case. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[NYLES]

I have a Encore in .270 but havent started reloading for it, question would you recomend using high quality brass to help this problem? Any brass youd recommend?

Also add this into your answer I really dont intend to reload for quanity in this gun, more for bullet choice and I like loadin my own.

Kirby, Thoughts on those 169.5 ULD RBBT's in a 270WIN Encore?

 

[wallypedal]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a Encore in .270 but havent started reloading for it, question would you recomend using high quality brass to help this problem? Any brass youd recommend?

Also add this into your answer I really dont intend to reload for quanity in this gun, more for bullet choice and I like loadin my own.

Kirby, Thoughts on those 169.5 ULD RBBT's in a 270WIN Encore?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess this means you want to take over this thread NYLES?? Talk about 270's and high quality brass and such? OK what the heck. Thanks Kirby and all for the info. Yep, I knew it would stretch, just wondering how much stretch is to be expected....BTW the 'Post' button is right there at the forum top next to 'Previous' - just click on it and you can start your own thread on any subject - magic!! Moderator, this is all in fun, please wipe it if it breaks the rules.
Tom

 

[gator378]

I have a 2506 Sendero. I have not had any problems with case stretching. I full length resize, then neck size the next 3 or 4 times. Full length on the fifth, trim, and go another 5 times or so. I load the Winchester cases near max and consistently get 1 inch or less groups. I have not spent too much time on load development as 1 inch is good enough for now and I would rather,play with the 300 Weatherby. I found the 2506 to be an excellent cartridge. High velocity, low recoil and fun to shoot.

 

[NYLES]

Well now...Same case same gun...Question was an attempt to LEARN MORE WAYS improve case life! BUT SINCE I DON"T SHOT 25-06, I DESERVE 50 LASHES! I PROMISE TO NEVER TYPE ON YOUR POSTS AGAIN!

OH YEA! SORRY FOR THROWING A 270 BULLET QUESTION INTO A 25-06 POST!!

 

[wallypedal]

NYLES,
My reply was a feeble attempt to have a little fun, and you're right, there's not much difference! Really, please reply anytime it moves you...I'll buy you a catfish dinner. It looks like I'm getting more stretch from the Hornady expander than I am anything else. At least fired brass is about 2.488 or 2.489 after trimming to 2.484. Then it goes to 2.494 2.495 after sizing and expanding. I haven't checked the sized without expanding length, cuz I figure I have to size the way I am anyway. Gonna measure the chamber, cast it or something, to see what actual depth to front of the case neck/base of throat is.
BTW - I learned that relatively hard sandbags under the forend along with weak and inconsistent shoulder pressure makes for some really nice vertical strings.... I really need to refine my technique and rest equipment. Consistent 1/2" groups horizontally and you name it vertically. My first clue was loads with a full 1 gr. more powder were grouping LOWER than weaker ones. NYLES, please right back and tell me how your range experience goes with the .27O!
Tom /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[royinidaho]

From my experience the 25-06 and the 27-06 (270 Win) are equal case stretchers when both are pushed to maximum velocities.

My dad and now my brother has the 25 and I have the 270. Both are pushed to max velocities. Both require trimming about every third shot unless you do something.

The 'something' I do is I neck size, with the full length die, only one caliber down the neck, or there abouts.

It seems to help and I have no problems using reloading cases between 10 and 20 times. That's a broad range as some make it to 10 before they get the crystalized ring around the web and others last longer.

The loads in the 270 were 58gr 4350 and 130 sierras (way to hot). The other load is, I think, 58.5gr RL22 and 140gr Hornady Interlocks. Both go right at 3200 but the RL22 load is much more reasonable.

FWIW

 

[NYLES]

Shoulder pressure issue can be cured with a wood or laminate stock, if your shooting that molded plastic thing junk it! Most of my Encore range stuff is with the M/L barrel. Mike Bellm sells a gauge for measuring headspace and a few other T/C measuring tools you might wanna look at.


Try this page for some good info! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://bellmtcs.com

Drop by I'll by the fish! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[jlamb]

I've been reloading for 25-06 for about 5 years. I full length size about every 4 t o5 reloadings and neck size the rest. My Winchester likes 87gr TNTs with a max load of H4350. My cases will stretch about .005" to .010" after every shot. I trim every reload to 2.484" to increase accuracy. I think it's the nature of the beast when reloading overbore cartridges.

I've found that Remington brass lasts longer than Winchester brass. I have only had split case necks, no head separation.

 

[wallypedal]

jlamb, you brought up this old thread, and I feel obligated to tell what I did since the original posting time. I did buy Bellm's headspace measuring setup, and discovered that my 'garage' measuring technique on the Encore wasn't accurate. What I had perceived as .001" was more like .003" - still within standards, but I was over-resizing by .002" or so. I also bought an RCBS X-sizer and followed the directions, setting it up so that the cases were sized just enough. My case life jumped dramatically. I have shot new cases prepped this way a max of 5 times so far, with no signs of separation, and overall case stretch stopped after the first couple loadings.

A couple more things - my first brass was purchased once-fired, and it was good, but I do believe some of it had been fired in chambers larger than mine. That means there was more initial stretch that got squashed back the very first time I resized. My real worry was case separation, although I emphasized stretching in the post, I was seeing the the hints of case separation after only 3 or 4 loadings and became skilled at shining a little LED light down there looking for the circle shadows that show before a crack even starts.

Starting with new brass fired only in my Encore, and following the techniques listed above, I'm not seeing those shadows either!

Wallypedal

 

[MTBULLET]

FWIW, I found the best luck using lake city 30-06 brass necked to 25-06 (annealed) . loads may need to be worked up again.