.223 reloading cartridge problems

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by christopher0452, May 7, 2014.

  1. christopher0452

    christopher0452 Member

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    Hi,

    When reloading some .223 cases, my son noticed some bulging at the base of the shoulder where it meets the case body....most common. On some, the shoulder, from base of neck to base of shoulder, has been compressed. On one, the shoulder has almost disappeared. All the above APPLIES ONLY TO THOSE CRIMPED ROUNDS WITH CANNELURES....no issues with non-crimping .223. The rounds in question: shot 1x, trimmed 1x, loaded with 23.3 grains of Benchmark powder, bullet is 55g Hornady..FMJ-BT, OAL: 2.21, case; REM FC, Primer; CCI/BR-4.

    Somewhat puzzling to me...clearly associated with crimping.

    Any thoughts as to what might be going-on?

    Sorry for being so winded...trying to anticipate questions.

    Gracias por todo!
     
  2. TJAY

    TJAY Well-Known Member

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    Crimp die adjusted wrong, too much crimp. It is pushing the neck down into/on the shoulder causing the bulge. Needs to backed off a bit.
     
  3. MTBULLET

    MTBULLET Well-Known Member

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    Make sure all brass is trimmed to same length, re adjust die. I think you are "over" crimping
     
  4. Kennibear

    Kennibear Well-Known Member

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    Classic results from uneven case length. This problem you are having is what the Lee Factory Crimp Die was designed to avoid. Buy one and forget this happening. You still have to trim but only to keep the rounds from jamming in the chamber neck.

    Classic crimping dies require very uniform case length. Even taper crimp dies need uniform length but are a little more tolerant of length variations. Roll crimps come to an abrupt halt when the neck is jammed into the bullet and then telescope everything back towards the base.

    I found you cannot use range pickups in 223/556 without trimming for uniformity in length before crimping. I now use Lee FC die almost exclusively.

    KB
     
  5. christopher0452

    christopher0452 Member

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    Thank you Gents for your response. Kennibear, I did trim the cases...none of which were range pick-ups. I am using an RCBS .223 die set. You think I should switch to the Lee Factory Crimp Die? For the record, this was my first try at loading with cannelure bullets. Zero problem loading with non-cannelure bullets...did 200 or so. Clearly, especially after reading you folks who responded, my settings in setting the loading machine to hit on the cannelure, was not right. Moreover, the OAL was shorter than with the other .223 bullets I loaded (Nosler, Varmageddon, FB Tipped, 55 grain). I simply loaded to the cannelure, but overdid something regarding crimping directions for these bullets.

    I loaded 200 with only 80 being good. I define good by dropping the round into the chamber, hearing a small click, inverting the rifle barrel and have the round drop-out by gravity only. With the 120 bad ones, the round would stick and not fall out without prying assistance....UGH!! I checked all 200 this way.

    So, since I have 120 damaged cases, any way to safely salvage the good primers as opposed to taking a hammer and scratch awl to them? (My penance perhaps).

    Again, many thanks for everyone's input!!
     
  6. mtwarych

    mtwarych Well-Known Member

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    Try raising the crimp die so you can seat the bullet to the proper OAL. Now lower your crimp die and run all your reloads through the die again. Make sure you pay attention to the feel of the crimp. If you come to a dead stop, that will be enough or over crimped.
    If you are crimping because you are firing the 223 in an AR platform, stop crimping you rounds altogether. Try 5 uncrimped rounds and cycle them through your rifle and then measure them to determine if any set back has occurred. If you see setback, then as stated above, use a Lee crimp die. I don't crimp any of my rounds for my AR or my M1 and have had no problems because of the lack of crimp.
    Good luck and be safe.
    I guess I took the long way around in trying to say seat and crimp in 2 different operations.
     
  7. christopher0452

    christopher0452 Member

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    mtwarych,

    Thank you for your input. This makes sense. I'll have to experiment. This is for an AR platform. The rounds that I did not crimp were all spot-on. Perhaps, crimping is not necessary. I undertook this because I purchased rounds with the cannelure on them and reasoned I HAD to crimp.

    Thanks for your time explaining this to me!
     
  8. Kennibear

    Kennibear Well-Known Member

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    Never seat and crimp in one step. NOT EVER!

    1) Seat all your bullets.
    2) Remove the bullet seating punch/stem.
    3) Run a seated round all the way up into the die.
    4) BY HAND screw the die down until you feel the crimp shoulder roll the neck into the bullet and stop- there is a definite "stop" to the feel.
    5) Lock the die ring down to secure the die. Check that round for crimp, you don't need anymore than case neck touching the bottom of the cannalure.
    6) Try another round.
    7) Get frustrated at the inconsistent crimps and waste an hour trying different solutions.
    8) Buy a Lee Factory Crimp Die.
    9) Problem crimping ceases to plague your life forever.

    I refer to this as the "9 steps to a perfect crimp".

    Do not crimp if you do not have to. I found that my DCM Match loads were more accurate uncrimped.

    KB
     
  9. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    Crimping is for select fire arms, not a semi auto anyway and especially not a wimpy recoiling 223. If you have adequate neck tension forget about crimping or use a Lee collet crimp die
     
  10. christopher0452

    christopher0452 Member

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    Thank you SidecarFlip and Kennibear. Super information I will use. By the way, do either of you have a suggestion for safely removing 107 primers from this group of cases I screwed-up....short of hitting an awl with a hammer and destroying the primers?

    Thank you
     
  11. mtwarych

    mtwarych Well-Known Member

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    I am guessing that you loaded the ammo.
    I am also guessing that you used boxer type primers and not berdan.
    After you have pulled the bullets, simply re-lube and gently resize your cases.
    Do not try to save a live primer that has been removed from a case due to the reason by decapping may have damaged the primer and could cause unhappy problems farther down the line.
    If you have a case that just won't resize easily, throw it away, don't force it
    There is a need to wear safety glasses but no need to try to render the primers inert by spraying oil or WD40 into the cases.
    Slow and easy and careful.
    Good luck
    JW
     
  12. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    Pop your pills, dump the powder and spray a quick shot of WD40 (with the spray tube) down the flash hole from the inside and decap them. Jusy be sure to tumble them really well to remove the WD.

    As an aside, I've decapped many a live primer with no issue but it's not recommended really. I must say that small rifle primers can't make much of a 'bang;. I know 209 (shotgun) primers don't. I use them in my ML and have set them off witout any powder or bullet/sabot loded and they just go 'pop'. No biggie and 209's are 3 times as large as your SR primers.
     
  13. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    Interesting comments I guess:rolleyes:
     
  14. Kennibear

    Kennibear Well-Known Member

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    If you have collapsed your shoulder it is unwise to recover the cases. The next load could separate at the shoulder, the head space IS off, the cases are weaker, etc.

    You should dispose of the cases and primers. The primers represent about $6 and you cannot deprime them and safely reuse those primers. I count my 223/556 brass with 2 1/2 gallon buckets. It was overpriced awhile back but deprimed/decrimped brass is available for $125/1K. Not worth saving. Most outdoor ranges have tons laying around.

    Now if I could find 300 WinMag brass by the ton laying around...

    KB