195 EOL or 215 Hybrid

[SSG Graybush]

So I had a discussion with a buddy the other day and the wheels been turning ever since.

He was talking about his buddies rifle (Piercision 30-28 Nosler) and it's abilities. I started looking into 28 Nosler vs 30-28 Nosler vs 300 WM (which I own).
I am now very tempted to make a change. My rifle is a Christensen ELR 300 WM with McMillian stock, 26" 1-10.
I'm tempted to either rebarrel or sell. Leaning towards selling and starting with a Kelby action.
Would you put a rig together specifically to shoot the .284 195gr EOL or a .308 to shoot 215's or 245 EOL?
I'd like to hear some discussions on this.

Ps. This would not be a high volume rifle so not a concern about barrel life. Plinking/Elk

I believe less is more. Meaning, you only need 1200-1500 #'s of energy /1800 fps bullet speed to reach your maximum effective range at elk attitudes, 7800 ft alt. So reverse engineer. Thats why I built a 7 RM 8T to shoot a 180 vld-h. Leaving barrel at 2917 fps at 7800 ft alt meets the requirements to 1000 yards. At 1000 yards, the 180 vld-h had the same trajectory as the 195 EH but had slightly more wind drift, like .2 mils. I believe.
If the 7 prc would have been out I would of built that. Thats gonna be about as perfect a LR hunting round as any. Its has slightly less case capacity then a 7 RM, but slightly more then a 7 saum, at 78 gr of H2O, with all the new case design features, shorter, fatter, steeper shoulder, and longer neck. And no belt, if that matters to you.
It just makes sense to use the minimum recoiling round possible that fits your specific needs. You'll shoot it more, and better. And shot placement is key.

 

[doverpack12]

I listened to a great podcast recently from Gunwerks. It was about the 7 PRC but the majority of the podcast was Aaron Davidson walking through his findings with different cartridge capacities and the solo shooters ability to spot shots and make a follow up shot.
Cliff notes is really anything over 7 RM (essentially same as 7 PRC but PRC solves some problems) is too much recoil to reliably spot your own shots.
Certainly got my attention because I would like to build or buy a lighter weight long range capable mountain hunting rifle in the next few years. I'm not always with someone to spot and taking a shot then having to leave my position to check video before a follow up shot just doesn't make sense when the animal could be moving or be able to leave my range or sight.
I have a 7 STW so it resonated because the majority of the time I cannot spot my shots. Once in awhile with a good position setup and form I can. No brake on mine so certainly would benefit from installing one but then I would never shoot without earplugs, not that I try to now but once in awhile it's earplug or the one shot opportunity you were going for.
195s at 3050 push me around much more than 143 Hammers at 3350-3650.

 

[WYO300RUM]

Where??

Cody Wyoming

 

[FEENIX]

I have a 7 STW so it resonated because the majority of the time I cannot spot my shots. Once in awhile with a good position setup and form I can. No brake on mine so certainly would benefit from installing one but then I would never shoot without earplugs, not that I try to now but once in awhile it's earplug or the one shot opportunity you were going for.

I understand that a muzzle device (brake or suppressor} is not for everybody. An effective muzzle brake serves two purposes; a reduction in felt recoil and a reduction in muzzle rise/fall. Often, the latter is not realized, and this reduction helps end-users spot their target on impact. I have a few different types of muzzle brakes and have been using them since 2003 and never looked back. I am not recoil sensitive, but most of my hunting rifles from .25 to .33 cal sport a muzzle device. I use electronic hearing protection at all times.

 

[jacobdewey]

I'm open to any suggestions. I already have dies for the 300 RUM I load for my dad.

If you already have the dies....

I just put together a 30" 300 rum. Using adg brass, and h50bmg, I'm shooting the 245's at 3030fps. Single digit sd and crazy temp stable, especially since you can run them near 100% case capacity. 3.085" to ogive and 3.930" coal. Has more ftlbs at 1000 yards than a 300g 338 at 2700mv. Plus h50bmg is cheap compared to retumbo and h1000 and easy to get. Just picked up 8# for $39 a pound.

Using a fat bastard brake and the gun weight is 13.8 lbs loaded and ready to go. With it being so heavy, recoil is nearly non existent, so I can spot my own shots easily out to 1000 yards. Definitely not a backpack gun. Ha

 

[GetReel]

If you already have the dies....

I just put together a 30" 300 rum. Using adg brass, and h50bmg, I'm shooting the 245's at 3030fps. Single digit sd and crazy temp stable, especially since you can run them near 100% case capacity. 3.085" to ogive and 3.930" coal. Has more ftlbs at 1000 yards than a 300g 338 at 2700mv. Plus h50bmg is cheap compared to retumbo and h1000 and easy to get. Just picked up 8# for $39 a pound.

Using a fat bastard brake and the gun weight is 13.8 lbs loaded and ready to go. With it being so heavy, recoil is nearly non existent, so I can spot my own shots easily out to 1000 yards. Definitely not a backpack gun. Ha

My brother has a 300RUM Sendero we just put a brake on. Haven't shot it yet since then though. My dad has a MOA Sporter 300RUM with a radial brake and when we were shooting them side by side (before my brothers got a brake) there was a huge recoil difference. I'm not a fan of radial brakes cause I hate taking standing shots without a rest cause I just can't hold steady so I don't ever shoot that way (except 2 years ago when I shot a mule deer at 70 yards haha).

Yea I have the 300 RUM dies so maybe that is the route to go. I am intrigued about the 50bmg powder thing for the project.

 

[jacobdewey]

My brother has a 300RUM Sendero we just put a brake on. Haven't shot it yet since then though. My dad has a MOA Sporter 300RUM with a radial brake and when we were shooting them side by side (before my brothers got a brake) there was a huge recoil difference. I'm not a fan of radial brakes cause I hate taking standing shots without a rest cause I just can't hold steady so I don't ever shoot that way (except 2 years ago when I shot a mule deer at 70 yards haha).

Yea I have the 300 RUM dies so maybe that is the route to go. I am intrigued about the 50bmg powder thing for the project.

I tried the H50bmg out of frustration not being able to get retumbo, rl33, or h1000. Figured it would be dirty and slow, but a better alternative than us869. With the long tube and heavy bullets, it's a match made in heaven. I hit pressure at 95g and 3040fps. My ladder test from 94g to 95.5g only had a es of 36 fps. Settled on 94.6g with an sd of 4. (3027-3031, 3030fps avg)

The Fat Bast. Gen 2 Brake is directional self timing, so it's off to the sides and has tunable top ports.

 

[KH_Outdoors]

28 nosler + 195 bergers have been the easy button getting into long range hunting & shooting. I've used one almost exclusively the last two years and taken several animals without a single issue. Black bears, Aoudad, Caribou, Elk, Mule Deer. All with great results from 50 to 747 yds as the longest. With a 24" barrel I get 2970 fps after the barrel has sped up. Very flat shooting and great in the wind! 195 bergers have been pretty available too, along with 28 nosler ADG brass.

The cons however: barrel life will not be great. Barrel gets hot fast. Muzzle blast.

All that being said though... I'm building a 300 PRC right now and I'd like to try 215's in it. As far as 30 cals go, I was looking at Magnum bolt face options. 30 Nosler & 300 PRC are the clear mid range choices for me without jumping into the RUM. I landed on the PRC because I can get Lapua Brass. I plan to load for that gun but it's also nice to know there are some decent factory ammo options (Hornady). The 300 Norma & 300 Norma Improved options out there are really intriguing. I do plan to add one to the collection at some point also!

Cons to the 30 cal/215's: Really mostly just bullet availability I expect. 195's are easier to get than 215's. Balistically the 195s with higher bc would do better in the wind but I'm not sure you'd see a huge difference on a Deer. Maybe a little better on elk? Recoil wise I would imagine they're comparable considering you're pushing a bullet approximately 200 gr with approximately 80 gr of powder (give or take obviously) and if both guns were set up comparably for weight & muzzle devices. Gets down to splitting hairs.

The clear answer? Start with one and then get the other and find out!

 

[lancetkenyon]

Where did you get the 215 bergers? I have been waiting forever.

They have been hitting shelves all over for about 2 weeks. But you have to be quick.

 

[QuietTexan]

Yea I have the 300 RUM dies so maybe that is the route to go.

It's a very versatile round, for any one who has recoil or inefficiency concerns they just need to remember there's no need to whip on it with every load. I found a "slow" load at 2800 FPS with 210 ABLRs (that those bullets were a challenge to get to group any other way is another story), but then the same rifle can get pushed up to 3000 with Berger 210s. You can pretty much always get it to run 200 FPS faster than a Win Mag, or you can run it the same speed as the WM with lower pressure/longer brass life/ just as good of barrel life. ADG brass, improved reamers are available to get steeper shoulders if you want them, lots of 9 twist blanks seem to be available right now, and the feeding/box issue is NBD to do right as it's built.

I had three at one point, they're worth it IMO.

 

[PatriotHenry]

I threw the .284cal 195 in the mix cause that 28N can push that bullet. That bullet at 3k is a bad *** round. (Never had one or loaded for one so don't know how finicky they are).
If I go the 30cal route I would like to shoot the 215-245 at a good clip.

Take a look at the 300NM, if you are starting from scratch. It will do what you are looking for and fit in DBM's with the heavies.