110 gr gsc elk bullet

[gohring3006]

How many times did you have to sharpen your axe?

only once and that was to shave my beard this morning. Lol

 

[Demon061]

The 110 is way too light. The heavier bullets will offer higher BCs and SDs. The BC will keep your energy and velocity down range while the SDs will add to penetration and effectiveness of the projectile. Personally I believe the 140gr bullets are the best for the .270 WIN. They offer a great happy medium between speed, energy, and trajectory. Check out the 140gr AccuBond or the 140gr Hornady SST and BTSP. These will offer great terminal performance and expand all of their energy rapidly into the elk's boiler room.

I was going to do the Nosler BST but I think I might stick with the SST for the .270 this year too (for brother's gf)... thoughts? How's the TWB on the 140 grain?

 

[HarryN]

Thank you for this thread. I have been studying lead free bullet options for the .270 win (for hog hunting) and after a LOT of reading, came to similar conclusions.

- The 110 grn HV is certainly one of the better options for this setup, certainly given the restrictions (and my complete incompetence beyond 300 yards)

- 270 win, lead free bullets that actually will work in factory rifles, all appear to have pretty mediocre BC compared to 338 and 375s options.

- For larger game, it might make sense to move up to a bigger caliber, like a 375, especially when you are limited to lead free, if nothing else, to get better BC bullets.

This is my perception, I have not done the real use testing yet with lead free bullets.

Buying some of these HV 110s is on my list to do.

I have noticed that the loads are all designed to run them pretty fast. Does it ever make sense to use a slower than recommended powder to bring them down to (example) 2500 fps for a low recoil target / plinking round for the kids ?

 

[davkrat]

I load light recoil plinking loads for the kids. No way would I use lead free in those situations. First off too expensive. Secondly I think there is a much greater risk of ricochet with a mono metal than cup and core. The powdered tin core style lead free billets made for varmint calibers I would have no problem plinking with. I don't have any experience with the Multi Purpose Green bullets but hopefully something similar will come out in lighter weights.

The light for caliber VMax bullets are perfect for plinking.

 

[tony m]

Well, , glad to see this thread caught your attention.It is clear there is no bullet ideal in every situation.Never is there just one possible answer to a question like this.Keeping your cool, knowing the situation . Works. Preperation works, and nothing works (sometimes) Physics will in time be supplanted by quantum physics . Scary. .hell bring it on.Imagination is more important than knowelge-A Einstein.A battle of wills, the right brain vrs the left, kinda like taking hours to paint a beautiful picture ...and then using it as a target.Just a brezzy little question for a Sunday morning.Well now I best shoot something.Cheers

 

[elkcoast]

Lets look at a 270 WSM I know I'm capable of killing elk out to 1000 yards with it properly loaded at my elevation.

Now lets take a heavy for cal 165 Matrix and run it at 3060 fps, it hits a 1000 yards at 1940 fps with 1378 ft lbs of energy, trajectory is 20.7 with 4.3 moa wind.

What 165 grain bullet with 3060 fps muzzle is still going 1940 fps at 1000 yards. I can't imagine the ballistics coefficient it must have, but I've never seen anything close to that even advertised.

 

[elkcoast]

weight doesnt matter???

I also prefer the two hole method on elk, particularly in western oregon. So rainy much of elk season, I want twice the chance of a blood trail to follow if it didn't tip over the first shot...and even the best of shots doesn't always drop them in their tracks.

 

[elkcoast]

Tikkamike,

How heavy do you want to go? We can supply a 1690gr SP bullet if you can build the rifle for it and drag it into the field with a helper.

The problem is that recoil will be something to contend with and practicality for shooting elk will be somewhat questioned?

I think the 1690 grain bullet for elk would be awesome, if you want to kill, field dress and quarter the bugger all in a split second of time. And maybe the broken collar bone from the giving end of things.

 

[elkcoast]

From my experience when someone pulls the Apples to Apples card out all they have to bring to the table is Apples and are trying to narrow the conversation down so only their product will ever work!

I've loaded the 165 and 175 Matrix in multiple 270 Wins to mag length with 1-10 twist, those guys have taken probably 50+ elk and to a man not a single one of them would go back to the light fast bullet they were using.

It's abundantly clear when you shoot an elk in the neck with a small hard fast bullet, you skin them out and you find your little hole drilled through them and your know your lucky because shot placement alone covered your butt. An elk hit in the neck with a 165 Matrix will have a couple vertebra completely crushed to the point you have to drag them out carefully, even if you miss the spine it creates such a devastating permanent wound channel they drop.

Your new mouse trap is not new to many of us, many of us have shot light for cal bullet fast, for a lot of game it's great but elk it don't cut it with enough consistency.

I wish the elk shot in the neck statement was always true. I grew up believing a good neck shot would always do the trick too. I used my 8mm mag with 200 grain bones crushers, hit this bull three times in the neck at fairly close range. Knocked it on it's butt each time and got up each time on the dead run. I finally caught back up with it after I put another good lung shot in it. Trouble is, the neck is so big that it's easy to NOT hit the bone every time.

 

[elkcoast]

bigngreen,

If you feel it is ok to compare apples to oranges, so be it. However, if you want me to bring oranges to compare to your oranges, name the parameters. We have a listed range of more than 250 different bullets and another lot of custom bullets to choose from. That compares well to some other manufacturers.


QUOTE]
Well fellas, if we're making fruit cocktail, let's bring some cherries and mango too, and I am partial to nectarines as well.

 

[elkcoast]

My 308

I have a 30" 1:10 twist barrel that i shoot 215gn bergers at a mv of 2600fps
I use this gun for ftr competition
For hunting
And for practice

This bullet has explosive terminal performance on game with 1100 ft/lbs of energy at 1k yds and stays supersonic to 1500 yds.

These bullets cost me right over $50 for 100.

what is the B.C. on that bullet?

 

[Deleted member 46119]

let's get off the heavy for caliber rhetoric, when using mono metal projectiles its not valid. Heavy for caliber requires purpose built rifles, such a rifle can shoot heavier monos.

For those of us who have to or want to mono metal projectiles, variety and quality of the offerings is a wonderful thing.

There is nothing "wrong" legally or morally with using a .277 110grn mono metal over a normal 130 on elk, or a normal over a heavy.

It just seems like a lot of arm chair shooting.

A question for 'elkcoast', have you shot a elk with those 165 Matrix?

 

[bigngreen]

let's get off the heavy for caliber rhetoric, when using mono metal projectiles its not valid.

Wrong, the mono is subject to the same physics every other bullet it. Here's what we see with light for cal mono's on shoulder hit elk, you'll make a hit close in the center of the shoulder with good velocity it will shear the petals of which cuts down the frontal area and then it has enough poop to get through, you'll see nice clean bone fractures and the meat around the hole will be pulverized with low blood shot, wound channel will be tight but straight through for the most part.
If you do not shear the petals of it has a double diameter frontal area and without the mass behind it lacks the forward momentum to penetrate but it has to go some where and you'll see them deflect, sometimes they'll deflect with enough to still get into something good other times it just comes out the front shoulder. You'll find the bone not splintered but kinda like a crushed bone crumble with no direct line penetration and the meat will not be pulverized around the wound.
When I commercially cut elk the non penetrating shoulder wound was the most common wound you'd see healed over and a surprising number of elk will be that way.

I don't really care about moral or ethics, really I just care about bringing home every elk I shoot in as good a shape for meat quality as I can.

 

[Beng]

Heavy for caliber / light for caliber is mainly a question of sectional density.
When a bullet fragments, it looses sd, when it mushrooms, it looses sectional density as well.
Sectional density plays an important part in the acceleration affecting an projectile contrary to the direction of flight.
The formula is:
a = cw * 1/2 * rho * v² * 1/q

a : acceleration (or perhaps I should say deceleration)
cw : drag coefficient
rho : density of media penetrated
q = m / A = sd*4/pi

I guess we can see, that increasing the frontal area of a projectile increases the acceleration twofold. Firstly by decreasing the value of q and secondly by increasing it for cw. We can also see, that mass is important too. Decreasing mass either by choosing a light projectile in the first place, or shedding material by fragmentation, increases the acceleration acting upon the projectile as well.

When comparing two projectiles, that behave the same way, by either shedding a given percentage of their mass in fragments or by deforming into a mushroom shape, the lighter projectile will always experience a greater acceleration. If we take into account, that lighter projectiles fired from a given cartridge are commonly faster then heavier projectiles, this is even more so.

Acceleration contrary to the direction of movement means a "loss" of velocity.
E = m * v²
Velocity is taken into account by the power of 2 in the calculation of kinetic energy. For our light bullet loosing it's higher velocity faster than a comparable slower, heavier bullets means, "loosing" energy a lot faster. Energy isn't lost though, it's used to perform work. In our case deforming the bullet and the media the bullet is passing. If the lighter bullet is loosing velocity faster and thus performing more work per time than a heavier bullet with the same amount of energy, this high amount of work will be limited to a shorter distance over which it is done, since the energy is consumed at some point.
Shorter distance = less penetration.
The heavier bullet will perform the same amount of work more evenly over a longer distance.

Neglecting the exterior ballistic effects of this, I don't intent to say light bullets are bad. But light bullets (low sd) do perform their work over a different way than heavier bullets (high sd). As hunters we have to decide which profile is necessary according to the game we hunt. Meaning what distance there is between the game's near and far side.

Whether the bullet is made from one or two materials is absolutely insignificant regarding the physics.