That's one heck of a groupThis is probably the best group I have ever shot due to the poi. 3 shots at 500yds with my old 300 rum. I can do this all day, baby!
View attachment 167549
“My rifle shoots .2s and .3s” ... huh?
- Thread starter new2mud
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
I'm just better than all you guys
Translation: I got lucky once and better never lose that picture!
At 500 yards, a 3 shot group of 1" is still only in the 2s! And to claim to do that consistently..... I wouldn't call the guy a liar, but I definitely wouldn't believe him until I saw some proof, nor would I expect him to believe me
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
The reason I test/group a rifle is for it's accuracy. All i want to know is what is the best it will do. I do all of my accuracy and load work up test at 100 yards and Off a good solid rest To minimize outside conditions that can change and effect the data and be repeatable. When I use a lead sled, I don't add any weight(It already weighs enough to make it steady).
By testing this way I am proving the accuracy and consistency of the 'rifle'. Everyone has a bad day, and I try to eliminate that part of the equation. When siting in I try to duplicate the hunting conditions that will be encountered, And when I shot matches I did the same by shooting from the different positions. The outcome is always different depending what kind of day I'm having.
With all testing done under as near perfect conditions, I know what the rifle is capable of and if i do my part it will be reasonably close but not as good so it puts pressure on me to do my best. Many of my hunting rifles are sited in at 2 and 300 yards under field conditions but are still tested and sighted in initially at 100 yards for ultimate accuracy so wind, mirage,site picture, rest and other things are at there best, and mostly eliminated separating the rifles ability from the shooters ability.
When I have a rifle that will shoot In the .1s and .2s it places all the blame on the shooter for a poor shot and buy eliminating the rifles ability the pressure and planing is all on the shooter.
The best group I have ever shot is a .034 @ 100 yards. I have hunted with this rifle and in field conditions a 1/2 MOA is very possible. Another philosophy of mine when I competed was to compete against my self not the others. I already knew what my rifle would do, so I tried to live up to it's ability and paid no attention to what others were shooting. This proved to be the best way to win because I knew what the rifle could do if I stepped up my game.
As I have posted before, I now have 5 rifles that will consistently shoot below the .1s
can I do that in the field, certainly not but it can do very well and occasionally will be a perfect shot. Unfortunately you cant measure one shot so you just have to consider where your POA was in relation to the POI is/was. I have memories of great hunts and most were because of great shots. there is something about not only making a good instant kill shot with a well aimed and placed hit, but hitting exactly where you aimed.
One of the other up sides of this method of testing, is that If I go to the range with one of these proven shooters and cant shoot a 1 moa or less group I instantly know I am having a bad day. so I lay it down and pick up another rifle of equal potential and shoot it. the second rifle will tell me quickly if it is me, or I have something wrong with the first rifle and can check for problems. I have already eliminated the loads and the barrel quality so first I look for lose mounts or bedding screws because they can change.
I know and believe that a person can shoot below a 100 thousandth group under ideal conditions but even then It will be hard to repeat, but the rifle did it and there is potential for it to do it again. So many things effect the accuracy of a rifle, all you can do is find out what "it" is capable of. and work on your skills.
J E CUSTOM
By testing this way I am proving the accuracy and consistency of the 'rifle'. Everyone has a bad day, and I try to eliminate that part of the equation. When siting in I try to duplicate the hunting conditions that will be encountered, And when I shot matches I did the same by shooting from the different positions. The outcome is always different depending what kind of day I'm having.
With all testing done under as near perfect conditions, I know what the rifle is capable of and if i do my part it will be reasonably close but not as good so it puts pressure on me to do my best. Many of my hunting rifles are sited in at 2 and 300 yards under field conditions but are still tested and sighted in initially at 100 yards for ultimate accuracy so wind, mirage,site picture, rest and other things are at there best, and mostly eliminated separating the rifles ability from the shooters ability.
When I have a rifle that will shoot In the .1s and .2s it places all the blame on the shooter for a poor shot and buy eliminating the rifles ability the pressure and planing is all on the shooter.
The best group I have ever shot is a .034 @ 100 yards. I have hunted with this rifle and in field conditions a 1/2 MOA is very possible. Another philosophy of mine when I competed was to compete against my self not the others. I already knew what my rifle would do, so I tried to live up to it's ability and paid no attention to what others were shooting. This proved to be the best way to win because I knew what the rifle could do if I stepped up my game.
As I have posted before, I now have 5 rifles that will consistently shoot below the .1s
can I do that in the field, certainly not but it can do very well and occasionally will be a perfect shot. Unfortunately you cant measure one shot so you just have to consider where your POA was in relation to the POI is/was. I have memories of great hunts and most were because of great shots. there is something about not only making a good instant kill shot with a well aimed and placed hit, but hitting exactly where you aimed.
One of the other up sides of this method of testing, is that If I go to the range with one of these proven shooters and cant shoot a 1 moa or less group I instantly know I am having a bad day. so I lay it down and pick up another rifle of equal potential and shoot it. the second rifle will tell me quickly if it is me, or I have something wrong with the first rifle and can check for problems. I have already eliminated the loads and the barrel quality so first I look for lose mounts or bedding screws because they can change.
I know and believe that a person can shoot below a 100 thousandth group under ideal conditions but even then It will be hard to repeat, but the rifle did it and there is potential for it to do it again. So many things effect the accuracy of a rifle, all you can do is find out what "it" is capable of. and work on your skills.
J E CUSTOM
What cartridges?
Memberberries
Well-Known Member
I tend to shoot groups off a front bag/rear bag. If I go to a bipod/rear bag I know they are going to be bigger and bipod only they will get even bigger.
I think the whole concept of what a rifle can do vs what the shooter can do is often intermixed but they are very different. My good rifles can shoot under an moa and some around .5 or even less but I on the other hand tend to make the groups bigger no matter how hard the rifle tries.
I think the whole concept of what a rifle can do vs what the shooter can do is often intermixed but they are very different. My good rifles can shoot under an moa and some around .5 or even less but I on the other hand tend to make the groups bigger no matter how hard the rifle tries.
Haha...I think I have shot a .25" group at 100 yards like once or twice. Definitely not at 400 yards haha.
During load development, I'm always using a Sinclair benchrest front rest and Edgewood rear bag. I'm trying to find what the rifle is capable of doing. I do get .3's and .4's but those are the exception. Typically, I'm shooting .5's - .7's or even 8's. Does that mean it's a .3 rifle? Probably not.
bags front and rear for load development to eliminate as much shooter error as possible. You want to see what the rifle will do/loads...
For the last several years or so most all of my load development/testing is done using a bipod, generally off a bench and prone with a rear bag. This seems to give me a decent representation of what I can expect in the field...my goal for a hunting rig is <.5MOA. Shown: Bench and prone with bipod at 200 yards.
Tex_Hunter
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2011
- Messages
- 314
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
It Doesn't matter what cartridge it is if it is built right and loaded with good concentric ammo it should be good.
Mine are=
260 Remington AI
7/08 Remington
7 wsm
30 x 378
And 416 Buff
J E CUSTOM
I use a less expensive front rest from Caldwell with a 4" owl ear bag from Protektor and a Protektor rabbit ear with carry handle on the rear our benches are concrete with an indoor/outdoor carpet on top of that shoots one hole groups at 200 with a .223
BrentM
Well-Known Member
Bipod and rear bag. I also don't care about 100 yard groups at all. I use close groups for zeroing. I do care about 300 plus, usually 500ish is my goal for groups. Have had way too many bug holes at 100 with crappy es/sd.
