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My thoughts on solid copper bullets and in comparison to other bullet types.
- Thread starter Petey308
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The biggest problem with solids is that people that switch to them and then complain that they don't work, is because they're running to heavy of a bullet. They're use to shooting a 180gr partition from their 308win on deer and think they still need to shoot 180gr ttsx on the same animal. But in actuality they need to drop to either a 150 or 130 ttsx to get the proper effect.
You can definitely tell you're an engineer lol. Yes, it always depends. And any velocity attached and mentioned here should be treated as a rule of thumb, not an absolute, because there are no absolutes, as you so stated. The fact is, expansion and performance does indeed taper off significantly after a certain velocity. There are definitely other factors and variables involved as well. This has been mentioned multiple times. The amount of impact resistance, where it impacts, the angles, what is hit as the bullet penetrates, how the bullet behaves terminally as designed, the tissues impacted and penetrated through, contracted muscles vs relaxed, amount of tendons and cartilage hit, etc, etc, etc.
To me, it's about stacking as many odds in your favor as you can. It's not a controlled environment out there hunting, so you can't truly count on anything really. Having a reliable and dependable bullet as well as rifle and every other piece of equipment and tools used is vital. Being a competent, well practices and trained shooter is also very important.
Some of these things go assumed and understood, especially when it's not the key topic.
Yes, lighter with less sectional density is the best course of action, in general with solids. Speed as well. So there also has to be a balance there with not going too light and losing too much BC and thus not enough retained velocity. You might start with a great deal of MV, but if you don't have enough BC, that velocity will bleed off very rapidly before impact, which isn't ideal with solids.
6.5x300 WBY
Well-Known Member
This is all very interesting here for sure. While i have developed my own opinions of bullets and on game performance that doesn't follow the OPs opinions at all but thats all fine and good. Works great for me.
One thing you stated is (True long range.) You really can't say that! You need to put a numerical value to it for stating Distance/ long range. What you think is long range another may not and vise versa. If i saw a deer at 300 yards i would probably say to myself **** i got to get closer that's got to be a mile.
No one person can really say this is long range its determind by an individual.
Good stuff all around
I understand "long range" is subjective and a matter of perspective. That's why I won't tie a number to it. I will say that true long range would be where skills and knowledge are detrimental and when calculating a firing solution to make a good hit is required. That too will depend on the cartridge and bullet used. Obviously some require less adjustment to certain ranges than others.
I have really enjoyed this thread. Lots of very good data and opinions. I wish I had the time some of y'all have to put into this research. Until I do, y'all keep up the good work.
I haven't shot at a deer with a rifle in probably 7-8 years. Broadheads have been my projectile of choice. All the hammer talk lately has peaked my interest. So I've worked a load up in a 30 cal with the 151 absolutes zipping along at 3800. With any luck I'll give y'all some Midwest white tail ballistic results in a couple weeks.
I haven't shot at a deer with a rifle in probably 7-8 years. Broadheads have been my projectile of choice. All the hammer talk lately has peaked my interest. So I've worked a load up in a 30 cal with the 151 absolutes zipping along at 3800. With any luck I'll give y'all some Midwest white tail ballistic results in a couple weeks.
As Feenix says, You have got to pick the bullet for what 'You" are doing with it. This is what I mentioned before, determine your range and adjust your bullet accordingly, For example, I hold myself to a 500 yard shot unless the conditions suite me here in Indiana so here is one of the rigs I have set up for this, " The Mule" 300 Rum running the 124 HH@ 4220, at 500 yards it's still running 2700fps and it's a 1.1 Mil hold over ( Verified) ,
Right. I fully understand and you've done well to put yourself and your load within both your limits. That same load would hit the 2200fps mark at 700 yards.
Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm only wanting to give a comparison here because I think it's interesting to ponder. So that load going 4220fps out of a pretty large cartridge (300 RUM) using I'm sure a good amount of powder, is giving you exactly what you need for that bullet for your 500 yard limit, which it great, but I dare say it just seems inefficient to me. Mind you, I do understand it effectively has to be in order to produce the required end result with that type of bullet. In comparison though, my 195gr TMK load in my 308, at 2700fps, hits 1400fps (the minimum impact velocity I use for that bullet) just over 1050 yards. It's quite cheap and easy to load for as well. Mind you, that load does require more elevation adjustment than yours, but that's a simple hold or dial.
This are just things I think about. Im not saying one is better than the other. That's obviously down to a lot of personal opinion and I already know yours
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Gday mercerbear
I'm a harsh critic as some no & I want the best
Results Incredible but also a little lacking to darn right ridiculous
& things I've never ever witnessed in my life
It's no different than the frangible with one exception frangible have limits
you can't destroy a hammer well not yet & we are trying ( ive destroyed raptors ) as we speak if the animal cooperate we hope to have a 30 cal @ 5 k impact into a animal shortly
Now I believe it's been done with the 22 cal or close to it but only word of mouth
The reason for 30 cal is more frontal area hence possible distortion or fracture or bent shank
I've got impacts with 375 over 4 k & it's lights out real quick on anything it's impacted now I wouldn't use this combo on a buff as I did ( but I am crazy & one behind the crease would be interesting ) with a 200 gr pill numerous times with way less than ideal performance once heavy bone is encountered
The shock hammer has gone through some changes since it's first release ( I never used as I'm a late commer to hammer Bullets)
To where it is today it's a impressive pill but could be better IMO
& ive voiced that on my home forum
Design is critical with any pill & if used correctly the SH is a very effective option but can be improved
My personal side is the lever design it's just got more ticks to get the job done in its parameters
& should have the the 30 cal 120 lever very shortly & soon as it's here I'll have a deer dead deer in under a day & load development to dead deer I'm confident will be less than 5 shots that's what hammers do time in time out ( odd one different)
I noticed BB & GL have made some good comments I'd like to add as a lot more but I've got to go
Petey308 that one you circled was from impacting a buff horn prior to entering its shoulder
Oh I'd love to stay & chat on SF yes we have basically eliminated tumbling & results that hmmm got to go
Cheers
To elaborate on Fordy's brief comment - the deformed Hammer went through the horn of an Asian water buffalo, then penetrated the body and killed the buffalo! Talk about a tough day at the office!
Very inefficient. Some of us get a thrill from raw horse power.
And preference. Some folks drive smart cars that get 52 mpg, some drive hot rods that measure in GPM. No wrong answers, they all have a purpose.
You are correct but did you take this in to consideration, I have a hold on hair to 500 yard rig, 1 mil or 3.7 moa. And my 308 is much the same as yours and if I'm hunting over 800 yards that's what I will take and my load is a cup and core bullet at the momentRight. I fully understand and you've done well to put yourself and your load within both your limits. That same load would hit the 2200fps mark at 700 yards.
Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm only wanting to give a comparison here because I think it's interesting to ponder. So that load going 4220fps out of a pretty large cartridge (300 RUM) using I'm sure a good amount of powder, is giving you exactly what you need for that bullet for your 500 yard limit, which it great, but I dare say it just seems inefficient to me. Mind you, I do understand it effectively has to be in order to produce the required end result with that type of bullet. In comparison though, my 195gr TMK load in my 308, at 2700fps, hits 1400fps (the minimum impact velocity I use for that bullet) just over 1050 yards. It's quite cheap and easy to load for as well. Mind you, that load does require more elevation adjustment than yours, but that's a simple hold or dial.
This are just things I think about. Im not saying one is better than the other. That's obviously down to a lot of personal opinion and I already know yours
