Lightweight Long Range Rifle

Ronald W Schaefer said:

Fierce Firearms CT Carbon Edge; 7mm-08; 6.5 Lbs with scope, way above cartridge class; deadly with Barnes 145 gr LRX and rings the gong pretty reliably at 1000 yds with Vortex Viper 4-16X44 HST w Kenton turrets. Down side--complete package is about $4K. I get 2844 fps with that Barnes from a 22" bbl. Very handy...

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Might ring steel at 1000, but not sufficient for an elk at 1000, or even a goat.
7000' AMSL, 30°F, 30% hunidity: 750 yards to retain 1800fps for proper bullet expansion per Barnes and 1043ft/lbs.
6000' AMSL, 60°F, 30% humidity: same as above pretty much, 760 yards for 1800fps & 1050ft/lbs.

Even if you go to 1600fps (which I wouldn't trust), still only gets you to about 900, but at 850ft/lbs energy.

Litehiker said:

Thinair, Excellent comment based on science, not internet BS. THANK YOU

For the money (IF you can overlook not having a locking bolt when on safe) I'd recommend the Ruger American or American Predator in 6.5 PRC. I had a 6.5 CM RAP and it was very accurate.

But now I have a Browning X-Bolt Pro in 6.5 PRC and it is worth every penny, especially when compared side-by-side with a SAKO Carbonlite. Yeah, the X-Bolt Pro is a lot more money (about 4X as much) as the Ruger American but with all its features it is still a bargain.

Eric B.

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PRC is ridiculous. Pretty much 6.5 MAGNUM and with those new 135 or 153 atips... boy, oh boy... its all around toy. It shoots 135 at around ~3200-3250 and 153s at 3050-3100. Blazing fast, wind cheaters, and provides a big punch. I think 153s at max loads are overkill for goat/deer. 6.5 prc, 153gr at 2900-3000 MV is a nice sweet spot. Still a bullet needs more testing on game, but gunwerks already shot antelope at 700yards with 135 atip out of 6.5prc going 3033... ran 20 yards and expired, exit wound was really nice. For now probably still gotta stick with proven eldm/x... but seems new atips are good to go for hunting.

Its crazy how old schoolers stuck in time, according to them evolution goes backwards and not forward. All these bullet, powder etc advancement means nothing to them

Manners EH1, bighorn action, proof Sendero barrel, trigger tech, vias muzzle break....gets me .25" groups in 300win out of Hornady 178g ELD M all day long. Gun weighs in the 6.5-7 lb range and lands right at 8lbs with a leupold scope. I'm good to 1000yds all day long and the prefit barrel option gets me a build without a big expense if I have to change barrels. Happy with mine

Its crazy how old schoolers stuck in time, according to them evolution goes backwards and not forward. All these bullet, powder etc advancement means nothing to them [/QUOTE]

I think some don't need to fix something that ain't broken for them, if it has worked for some 40 or more years and countless animals taken, why change it.

Unless you are going really long range say 700yds or further then the need for the newer stuff comes in to play, otherwise older bullets in classic cartridges work great.

I know a few old schoolers and heck, their way still works, so I can't blame them when they keep filling the freezer season after season.

nksmfamjp said:

I'm writing this for a friend as I'm having trouble supporting his rifle purchase properly....

Basically he wants a goat/elk hunting rife that he can shoot 400-600 yards max at game as well as ring some steel at whatever range out to 1000 yards.

So, his latest rendition is a Manners stock, but instead of a typical 5.5 lb barrel, he is thinking about a 3.5-4lb tube. What have you built or seen built like this as a light tactical rifle?

Caliber is most likely 300 Win Mag, or 308 or 6.5 creed or .....I keep trying to sell him on 280 AI, but that is going no where. 300 WM good enough?

I think this means somehow he wants a lightweight tactical rifle with adjustable cheek piece for bigger scope...something basically where the rifle comes in around 8.5 lbs, mount 0.75 lbs, scope 2 lbs. Any ideas how to build something like this? Proof barrel....look at Christianson Arms??

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How much does he want to spend? If he doesn't mind an off the shelf rifle, the Ruger Hunter with factory muzzle brake or the Remington Longrange rifle in either 30-06 or 300 winmag would do it. If he wants a semi-custom rifle, he might look at the Remington Custom shop rifles on the 700 action or the E.R. Shaw custom/semi-custom rifles, which are on the Savage action and can be ordered in any barrel length and a long list of calibers. All of these rifles will shoot MOA or better with premium factory loads, and tighter with hand loads. And all of them would be under $3,000. The factory ones would be considerably less. I would get the Ruger in either .300winmag or 30-06. It weighs in under 8lbs and will put 5 shots inside an inch. And it comes with rings and a muzzle brake. Finding it in 30-06 is difficult, as they only made it in that caliber for about 2 years, but its made in .300winmag and that will reach 600 and be effective on game. It will also hit steel at 1,000.

LVJ76 said:

I think some don't need to fix something that ain't broken for them, if it has worked for some 40 or more years and countless animals taken, why change it.

Unless you are going really long range say 700yds or further then the need for the newer stuff comes in to play, otherwise older bullets in classic cartridges work great.

I know a few old schoolers and heck, their way still works, so I can't blame them when they keep filling the freezer season after season.

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Yeah sure, but they dont have to come and bash new generation, which they do. Matter of fact, i would suggest .243 shooting vld 115gr, and IT IS ELK KILLER up to 700 yards AT ELEVATION.

As long as elk are on the menu, I would go with the 300 or even .338 RUM. Forget all the schmucks that think they can slay elk at 1000 yards with their peashooter 6mm something. As long as everything is perfect, maybe. But when that royal just refuses to give you that perfect shot, the .300/.338 will still get the job done. So if you are patient enough to pass up marginal shots, then get a peashooter. If you're not willing to watch that trophy walk away without taking a less-than-perfect shot, then make sure you have enough gun!
Cherrs,
crkckr

LVJ76 said:

Its crazy how old schoolers stuck in time, according to them evolution goes backwards and not forward. All these bullet, powder etc advancement means nothing to them

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I think some don't need to fix something that ain't broken for them, if it has worked for some 40 or more years and countless animals taken, why change it.

Unless you are going really long range say 700yds or further then the need for the newer stuff comes in to play, otherwise older bullets in classic cartridges work great.

I know a few old schoolers and heck, their way still works, so I can't blame them when they keep filling the freezer season after season.[/QUOTE]
Oh but we do take advantage of changes. For instance, Hodgden's Superformance powder in the venerable -06, which adds a little over 150fps to the 165, 168, and 180 grain bullets. Or CFE 223 in the .308 Win, and a gain of about 100fps in the heavy bullets (165-175gr). Why go to a new cartridge when just changing to a new and improved powder will make what I've got match the new cartridge without having to buy new dies, different bullets, new casings and maybe a new rifle(not that there's anything wrong with a new rifle except having to explain it to the wife: and she now knows that they don't breed in the closet )? By the way, I've gone even more old school. I hunt mostly with a .35 Whelen for anything bigger than Whitetail deer.

Thinair is right about the .280 AI being a good elk and sheep round. And you can fire .280 Remington ammo in it on those trips when the Airlines loose your ammunition. All it does is give you a little lower velocity and fire form your brass for you. It is a very good round with the heavier (175 and 180 grain) bullets without the heavy recoil of a magnum. Reloading it is easy, and brass can be bought or made easily. I just like the .30's because of the larger hole they make at distance. I know (I live in Colorado) what is the minimum caliber allowed here, and I know some very good hunters who have killed elk with the .243 (I have a 6mm Rem). I wouldn't take a shot with a 100 grain 243 bullet on elk at anything over 150 yards, if then. I want the weight and mass of a 7mm or above heavy bullet. I want the inertia, and the tendency not to deflect off of bone. I want an exit wound and a good trail, in case the animal doesn't drop right there, and I want to be able to break large, heavy bones at whatever distance I might get a shot I know I can make. I use a .35 Whelen and Speer 250 grain or Sierra 225 grain bullets, either of which are devastating at 600 yards. At 8,000 ft they shoot as flat as a 180 grain 30-06, but hit with around 1,000ftlbs more force, and a lot more mass. Last year, my friend, George went Antelope hunting with me and shot a doe with his 6.5 Creedmoor at about 150 yards with a 140 grain ELDX, if I remember correctly. I watched the impact through my scope, and it was a beautiful shot. We trailed the antelope for about 800 yards but couldn't get another shot before she got onto someone's land where we didn't have permission to go. I have shot three antelope in the last two years with either a 30-06 or a 300 winmag. Ranges have been 80 yards to about 350 yards. All have been on the ground with straight line exit wounds ranging from 2.5 inches down to about 1.5 inches. So yes, bigger is better. The .280 is a good idea, and would be a great Sheep, mountain goat and elk rifle. So would a 30-06 AI.

I use a Kimber 8400 in 300WM for LR hunting in what we call 'fringe' country here in Down Under.
This is where open farm land meets the natural (sometimes not) forest.
We set up our rests overlooking known game trails where the deer cross from bedding/feeding areas, ranges can often exceed 1000mtrs, but we try to keep shots inside 800mtr due to steep terrain.

I also tote my Sendero II into this country, but stalking with it is out for me, don't fancy making my hip any worse.

Cheers.

Goat = Big Horn Sheep in this thread.

Also, I keep hearing big horn action. Is this because they are light or just a good diy rifle base??

I like 280 ai, but my friend talks about buying factory ammo...ugh

This is my 6.5 creedmoor build.

Savage lightweight hunter
Carbon six 18" barrel
Spectre ballistics aluminum brake
Titanium bolt handle with carbon fibre knob
Factory stock and trigger
Talley lightweight rings
Leupold 4.5-14x50 30mm tube side focus

Weighs 7.2lbs with the big scope.

I have another lightweight hunter and I am going to put a 24" 300wsm barrel, would like it to be 8lbs scopes.

nksmfamjp said:

Goat = Big Horn Sheep in this thread.

Also, I keep hearing big horn action. Is this because they are light or just a good diy rifle base??

I like 280 ai, but my friend talks about buying factory ammo...ugh

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Not sure if others have used them in this thread but I don't think they are anything other than average weight. I utilize it because the performance is good and the barrel compatibility is nice to have. If I'm spending that much on an action, it is a feature I found worth while. Hope that helps.

nksmfamjp said:

I'm writing this for a friend as I'm having trouble supporting his rifle purchase properly....

Basically he wants a goat/elk hunting rife that he can shoot 400-600 yards max at game as well as ring some steel at whatever range out to 1000 yards.

So, his latest rendition is a Manners stock, but instead of a typical 5.5 lb barrel, he is thinking about a 3.5-4lb tube. What have you built or seen built like this as a light tactical rifle?

Caliber is most likely 300 Win Mag, or 308 or 6.5 creed or .....I keep trying to sell him on 280 AI, but that is going no where. 300 WM good enough?

I think this means somehow he wants a lightweight tactical rifle with adjustable cheek piece for bigger scope...something basically where the rifle comes in around 8.5 lbs, mount 0.75 lbs, scope 2 lbs. Any ideas how to build something like this? Proof barrel....look at Christianson Arms??

Click to expand...

My advise is to build something to be the best at its intended purpose. Multi purpose rifles leave a lot to be desired. A light hunting rifle will not make a good tactical rifle. I think adjustable cheek pieces cause more harm than good, and they add a lot of weight. Light cheek contact is ok, but too many guys try to become part of the stock and that subliminal cheek muscle flex causes "fliers". I would do a 26" #4 or #5 barrel with a brake in a Mcmillan hunter stock with a Bat or Borden repeater. That is an excellent mid weight hunting rifle combo thats still nice to shoot.