Frankford Arsenal!
Some brass not bumping back
- Thread starter bultinkle
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So you're setting it up so optimal/normal is mid way through the shell holder range so that if you need some extra bump on larger formed cases you just drop down a few on the holder ladder to a shorter one.
I know there are people on this forum who are smarter than me. I also know what's going on here is not an uncommon observation amongst us handloaders.
I sure would appreciate it if someone could explain the science behind this phenomenon. Someone's got to know.
And to the OP, I forgot to say this in my previous post: when you adjust the bump on those pesky cases, remember that they'll become almost indistinguishable from the ones that size as expected. If you don't sort them out, you'll encounter this every time you run a batch. Depending on your loading process this can be quite a time setback.
Yeah that's a great idea. maybe some sharpie on the case where it won't wear off
You (and I too) don't get any say so there. It's the way the shellholders are designed. When you reach your desired camover and lock the die in position, the sizing is going to occur based on how those shellholders are engineered (and believe me ... some of the sets aren't spot-on with that .002 increment).
So, you start with the shellholder that leaves the shoulders with minimum bump. That's the one labeled .010. When you go to the one labeled .008 you are bumping the shoulders back another .002.
What I said was that 'my' shellholder set 'normally' gives me a perfect bump on the .006 shellholder. I 'do' have a set that the bump hits on the .004 shellholder (but, only on that one set). So YMMV. Also, Redding doesn't include their standard shellholder with the set of competition shellholders. That's important to know too. More $$$ maybe.
Gotcha
dcpreston
Member
So, on the standard shell holder that you have, how are you setting up the sizing die? Raise your Ram up all the way to the top of the stroke (highest point), screw the die down until it touches, then lower the Ram to its lowest point (handle in resting normal position), screw die into press 1.5 turns (as per instructions from RCBS, Forster, etc), lube your longest headspaced case and size it. See what your overall length is. If it is t back down below what the length you started with your die isn't sizing the case enough.
Option 1: try another die
Option 2: send die in to have material removed
Option 3: remove material from top of your standard die to get it to go further into your die.
I will say this, if you have different length headspaced brass from load development you will not get your bumps close to each other until they are all fired to form your chamber. (An example of that: I have 2 - 308 win rifles. One is a factory rifle the other is a custom rifle. The factory rifle has .002" longer head space than the custom rifle. If I size both brass from same lot of brass with same load one will be .002" longer headspace and with the sizing die setup to size the shorter brass it still will not size the longer brass down to the size of the shorter brass. I have to adjust the die again to "bump" it again to make them the same headspace.
I only know this because if experimenting with it and because of this I now always make sure that the brass that was fired in one gun stays with that gun. Once I am done with load development and shoot the brass to expand to that chamber then the consistency in sizing your brass will show in the sized brass.
I hope that makes sense.
I screw the die in enough to bump the shoulder of the given case as much as I want. I know there is a large section of people that hate this hillbilly shell holder style setup that isn't what the directions say, it's always gotten me consistent enough results (until now, though it may not actually be the issue still)
When I wasn't seeing shoulders set back on the few cartridges I did what the rcbs manual stated for stainless sizers, press ram up, die down to ram, press ram down, die in 1/4 turn further and set the lock ring.
This presents no change.
I'm surprised your rcbs instructions say 1.5 turns past contact.. that's a lot further than 1/4 turn past contact!
I don't have to worry about multiple chambers for 243 luckily, I only load for this rifle.
When I wasn't seeing shoulders set back on the few cartridges I did what the rcbs manual stated for stainless sizers, press ram up, die down to ram, press ram down, die in 1/4 turn further and set the lock ring.
This presents no change.
I'm surprised your rcbs instructions say 1.5 turns past contact.. that's a lot further than 1/4 turn past contact!
I don't have to worry about multiple chambers for 243 luckily, I only load for this rifle.
dcpreston
Member
Sorry, typed that incorrectly. 1/4 turn past, I have gone up to 1/2 turn in my old press. If I have to go to 1/4 turn in my co-ax press there is a problem with the die not sizing enough. You are correct.
Hmmm I have an old Lee press, maybe I should keep on going and see if that changes anything.
antelopedundee
Well-Known Member
I recall reading somewhere that 5 seconds or more is better for reducing springback.
antelopedundee
Well-Known Member
So if you load them and shoot them do they resize down properly after that or will they always be a problem?
Don't know yet
If you think of everything being a spring it makes sense. A little cam over or no cam over means the final size depends on how everything gets loaded. If a case goes into the die harder it will generally be longer because the higher load on the press spreads the press. It can be done, but it is time consuming to get each case to bump the same amount. A good solid cam over takes all of the squishiness out of the press and forces the brass into the exact same space everytime leaving just the spring back. The Redding competition shell holder just allows you to get a consistent cam over at a longer length. The die fully bottomed out on a stock shell holder should make the brass too short.
If you have already set the die with a significant cam over against a stock shell holder the competition shell holder doesn't help. If you are actually still floating above the shell holder when the press is loaded by the brass then you might not actually be bottoming out. You can sand the top of the $5 shell holder, but I would make sure you are bottoming out first. The cam over force should be noticeable higher than the force required to drive the brass into the die.
If you have already set the die with a significant cam over against a stock shell holder the competition shell holder doesn't help. If you are actually still floating above the shell holder when the press is loaded by the brass then you might not actually be bottoming out. You can sand the top of the $5 shell holder, but I would make sure you are bottoming out first. The cam over force should be noticeable higher than the force required to drive the brass into the die.
