M T Shell
Member
I don't know who Eric Cortez is but, if you mean Eric Cortina; he stated during an interview with gavintoob recently, that he and most other "F class" shooters use 284 Win.
6.5-7mm prc
- Thread starter scottw2119
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
H4350/H4831SC/RL16/RL23/N555 long barrels and longish freebore will do 3k.....some powders will be harder on brass than others at that velocity.
Is not the 7PRC a couple grains less H20 than the .264 Win?
Thanks for responding. So if you acount for all of the above..800, 1000?
Well, that is the reason I am going 6.5 PRC or 6.5 Weatherby RPM, it always goes to the 6.5 x 300 weatherby, cool rifles as well. I feel the hunger for more speed and down range power. Although when I saw the velocity of the Berger 6.5 PRC 156 grn ammo, thought maybe should just go with the 6.5 PRC. But something about a Weatherby going to have to get one.
Calvin45
Well-Known Member
@ButterBean ? Are you there?Where are the 22-7PRC radicals??
Yes Sir
Calvin45
Well-Known Member
If your 22-06 isn't fast enough these guys have a project just for you!
For me and what I want in a long range hunting round the idea of the 6.5-7 prc checks all the boxes. I have 6.5 prc's and like the cartidges, I like the old 6.5x55 and the 6.5x284 and I like that they fit in a short action, "kind of" right up until I want to shoot a long, heavy for caliber high bc. bullet and try and get a little more speed/performance and there is no room in the magazine to seat the bullet out far enough to get more powder in the case. I will add that I like and use 26" plus barrels on my hunting rifles "no muzzle brake" I appriciate all the short 6.5 for what they are but they are kind of "inbetweeners" they are a little to long to get max potential in a short action and a little bit short to take any real andvantage of a long action. I think the 6.5x7prc with its "short stack powder column" for case length, a desirable trait, at least to modern day cartridge marketing hype, a long enough neck to firmly hold and align the bullet/projectile along with a shoulder angle and neck length that should help with barrel life. Also the powder capacity sufficient in volume that it will not need to be improved to get all the easy to get velocity out of the 6.5 caliber bore, without trying to hard, increasing case/brass life. Two me it kind of sound like the easy button. This should be fun?
tracybartlein
Active Member
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2008
- Messages
- 37
Back years ago when Remington introduced all the new short action and ultra mag rounds we made all the ammunition test barrels and had to sign a non disclosure agreement because they where not released yet.
I told the senior engineer on the phone and I quote, "I fricking love you guys! Keep coming out with these new rounds especially the barrel burners. Keeps us in business!" He didn't have a response.
On a serious note though....these way over bore over case capacity rounds are a pain in the butt for us. We end up dealing with the guy who calls with the following problems....
My barrel quit shooting at X amount of rounds! It must be bad steel!
It won't hold accuracy after a few rounds!
You can just think of what comes our way. That's just a sample.
I've seen barrels so carbon fouled that you cannot see the grooves back at the chamber end of the barrel. We clean it really good and guess what...accuracy comes right back. We just dealt with a customer with a 25cal custom magnum round (I won't name what it is). Barrel started out shooting in the sub 1/2moa range and by 300 to almost 400 rounds it will only hold like 1moa or just over that. Sent the barrel in and we have to tell him...bud it's toast! The barrel gave you everything it had. Yes he shot it like a bench gun and it was built as a hunting rifle. We spent 2 weeks cleaning it and all we did was mine carbon out of it just so we could get a good look at it.
Calibers like 26 Nosler, 6.5PRC, 7STW you name anything that can fall into that category and they are a pain in the butt for us. We get plenty of data from ammunition test barrels we make and we know what a normal barrel life/round count is and they are taking care of the barrels and keep meticulous data.
Take a 308win case and neck it down to 243win and you take barrel life for the 308w which could easily go 10k rounds and hold 1/2moa to a 243win that wrecks the barrel in 800ish rounds (by necking the case down/reducing the bore size you have turned that 243w into a magnum round. Or take that 30cal barrel and instead of 308w chamber and turn it into a 300wm or 300 Norma for example and your looking at 1000k rounds give or take a little for peak accuracy/barrel life. By doubling the case capacity etc...your going to shorten barrel life. No way around it.
Then you have wildcat calibers where there is no reliable test data. Like a 6.5 300 Norma with bullets running at 3700fps or a 25/300wby with loads running bullets at 3800fps etc... or pick any other wildcat round and your told that I'm pushing the bullet at 3200fps and I have no pressure signs etc...but similar case capacity/caliber rounds will only give you say 500-600 rounds tops for barrel life and the guy isn't happy when the barrel pukes at 550 rounds and doesn't want to hear what you have to say.
Heat kills. The average temperature at the throat area of the chamber is from about 2200 to 4000 F. Depends on powder etc...but for reference 2200F is the temperature of lava. Yes it only happens for milliseconds when your shooting but it will work against you. Now figure in rate of fire, cleaning or lack there of etc...
If you cannot hold your hand on the barrel because it's too hot...your killing the barrel from a barrel life perspective. Shoot 20 rounds in a row thru a 300wm chambered barrel. By the end of that 20 rounds from a cold barrel...the barrel temperature will be about 195F. No way your holding your hand on the barrel.
Yes sometimes the game we play (competitive match shooting) you might run the gun hard and fast...but that's the nature of the game. You take what comes with it.
You want the super duper fast high velocity stuff....you take what comes with it.
284win on a F class gun you can get about 2k rounds out of the barrel....chamber that barrel in a 7 short mag and your looking at about 600-800 rounds on a f class gun.
The old saying goes...you want to go fast...it's going to cost you $ to go fast.
tracybartlein
Active Member
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2008
- Messages
- 37
It's been helping but still a lot of variables.Maybe better with the 400MOD steel?
The first ammunition test barrel we made and sent it out to a ammo maker for testing in the new material....we did it in 6.5CM. Normally on a ammunition pressure test barrel in standard material they are pulling the barrel at about 1700 rounds. The 400MOD steel went 3400+. Officially retired it at just over 3500 rounds.
We made accuracy test barrels for a bullet maker and they chambered it in 6.5CM as well and they tested two of the barrels in the new steel. They got 3000+ on one barrel and 4k on the other.
Doesn't mean you cannot wreck it! Guy shooting a 6.5PRC on a PRS gun and shooting a 120 rounds in a day with no cleaning and then takes it out the next day and shoots another 120 rounds thru it....your going to wreck the barrel. Dave here in the shop has got a little over 1100 round on his. It's still shooting but basically it's done. He won't take it to a big match anymore. Standard steel in 6.5PRC your looking at 400 to 900 rounds of barrel life. That's a big swing but again it comes down to the loads and how your shooting it.
tracybartlein
Active Member
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2008
- Messages
- 37
I'd say 800ish is about tops for the 7PRC. You might get a little more...might get a little less.
h_1ag
Well-Known Member
Whoa… I'm confused here- 6.5PRC is not a particularly fast round unless you're loading light bullets for it (which kind of defeats the point of it, IMO). Most loads are hovering around 3k fps or under. It's only ~200 fps faster than Creedmoor. Is that difference in velocity really reducing barrel life from 4k to 1k or is it more a case of people hot rodding them to shoot exceptionally fast speeds (+3,200) with lighter bullets?
tracybartlein
Active Member
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2008
- Messages
- 37
A 6.5CM on a ammunition pressure test barrel will only go about 1700 rounds. When they see the pressure swing and a velocity loss at the same time then they know they are on borrowed time with the barrel and will pull it. Remember they are loading a spec bullet at a spec velocity for box ammo.
Shooting a accuracy test barrel or you or I running a gun in a match in 6.5CM we can chase the tune and I'll say tops your looking at 3k rounds. That's it.
6.5PRC on ammunition pressure test barrels....if they are nice to the barrel (that's how it was put to me) the most they get out of them is 900 rounds. They've burnt those barrels up in a little over 400 rounds. I'll say an average is around 600ish rounds for barrel life (peak accuracy).
Guys shooting a 6.5WSM in F class ( my buddy ran one and we made him 3 barrels at one time)...each barrel died right around 550 rounds. Peak accuracy was gone and or the barrel wouldn't hold accuracy long enough to put 60-80 rounds on it in a day for a match. Had to pull the barrel. Now on a hunting rifle...yes you could get more out of it.
I've seen 26 Nosler test barrels only make it to 449 rounds for barrel life before they started having issues and had to throw the barrel away. I've got pictures and round count data from the company that did the work for reloading data. When they sent me pictures of the throat area of the chamber they asked me to guess the caliber and round count. I said 300wm and 800 rounds. They said nope...26 Nosler at around 110 or 140ish rounds. I forget which it was.
Yes sometimes it's the guy overloading / hot rodding it as you/we say that doesn't help anything.
Not taking care of it (properly cleaning it or intervals between cleanings or getting it too hot) also works against you.
Watch the powder you load...double based powders will burn the barrel faster as well. I only load single based powders. The trade of with double based powders is yes you can get a higher velocity at a normal pressure but the trade off is the powder typically burns at a higher flame temperature....that will work against you as well.
About a year ago a bullet/ammo maker working on a new reloading manual told me they omitted 26 Nosler from they're loading manual. They couldn't get enough rounds on the barrel with it to come up with reliable loading data to put it in the book. So they just left it out. When you hear stuff like that...makes you take a step back at times and take a hard look at things.
