hunting rifle accuracy

[Quintus]

When we (my kids now adults and I) are getting ready for western hunts the guns that go have to produce 3" or less at 400 from a bi-pod on an easy wind day to make the cut. That is done with 3 - 3shot groups each starting from a completely cold barrel on the same target. Once the load is proven to be consistently capable of that standard we can make a good decision on shots at game taking weather conditions and available shooting positions into account. We only have consistent access to 600 yard shooting so we are all pretty much 500 and in hunters. This has worked pretty well. We have filled a lot of tags from 300 to 500 yards and not lost an animal and really have not even had any difficult tracking jobs. My kids all started hunting west with me as soon as they had hunter safety.

 

[DoneNOut]

Why is that? I shoot all my groups off a bipod or a tripod, never use a bench.

That'll do!

 

[Idaho Lefty]

Wow this thread has blown up and went directions I was not expecting.

And,.. You were expecting,.. a DIFFERENT,. "Outcome" ?? LOL ! ( NOT on,.. THIS Site ) My idea of, a "Good", Rifle & Accuracy,...
Just Buy, a 22"-24" Tikka, in an APPROPRIATE Big Game, Cartridge ( YES,.. Sub, 8 pounds ) and "Tune", the Load / Bullet for,.. Sub 3/4 MOA !
1.5 Inch group's at 200 Yards and 5 to 6 inch, Max Dia., group's at,.. 700 yds, VERIFY "Drops" at, Distance, THEN,.. Practice ALL, Field Positions and,..
go Kill Chit,.. AFTER Learning how to, READ,. Wind !
There,.. Fixed IT,.. for, you !

 

[BrentM]

Bench and rests...... gun shoot better,be more accurate and will rule out errors.....

Sure, I suppose that'll tell you what the rifle can do but the shooter and rifle are a system. I follow the premise that using a system equals desired performance wherever needed. Introducing shooter error can negatively skew results but at least it's more realistic.

 

[Hespco]

For me, first two shots out of a cold barrel, 3/4" or better. Most all my hits are with the first shot. Extremely rare to need a second.

 

[Idaho Lefty]

Sure, I suppose that'll tell you what the rifle can do but the shooter and rifle are a system. I follow the premise that using a system equals desired performance wherever needed. Introducing shooter error can negatively skew results but at least it's more realistic.

EXACTLY,. ^^^^ as is,.. serious, "Cold Bore",.. Testing of, Rifle and,.. Load.
IT's, ALL,. a "System" !

 

[Huntz]

The problem is in the field at 800 yards , you are not using a shooting bench. Using a pack, bipod, tripod, tree limb , or what ever is not the same as shooting from a bench. You have to contend with wind ( guess what?No wind flags out in the wild and your hand held has no idea what the wind speed is at 800 yards). Also those little annoying cactus when you try and belly crawl or shoot prone, plus those doggone weeds and grass in your way. I have hunted 40 years in Montana and have never had to shoot over 400 yards. Just sayin,Huntz

 

[Dirtrax]

You seem to be the Unicorn, I have seen many (many, many) posts by those claiming to "hunt" with rifles exceeding 12 pounds. Then there are the large optics (spotting scopes, range finders,), many with moderately heavy bipods (attached to the rifle) or even a few with tripods capable of making standing shots, ect.

All of this gear associated with long range hunting used by some…..adds up to many pounds. All this can be easily done with horses and friends, or driving to an overlook as an example, ect.

Those hunting on foot, in rough country, often covering several to many miles per day with the aforementioned gear…..would be put into an rather extreme situation physically! Doable yes…..but by a very small percentage of those carrying a hunting license! JMO memtb

13-1/2lb rifle and I'm 62yo, 160lbs soaking wet.

 

[BlazerBeam]

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^. Because what a rifle can do at 100yds can give a very false impression of what it can do at 600-700-800yds. I've seen a number of rifles print nice tight groups at 100yds and group miserably at extended ranges.

How? A 1/2 MOA group at 100 is still a 1/2 MOA group at 1000. Bryan Litz and many others have shown this with their shoot through targets.
I think it's the shooter that has problems at 7-800 yards for whatever reason. Many are good at setting up on bags on a bench and shooting good 100 yard groups but terrible at laying prone or other field positions and shooting those same tight groups.

 

[BillLarson]

Sure, I suppose that'll tell you what the rifle can do but the shooter and rifle are a system. I follow the premise that using a system equals desired performance wherever needed. Introducing shooter error can negatively skew results but at least it's more realistic.

Well..... we all got opinions......
but if you want to find out how accurate your rifle is....use a bench and bags....
of which the shooter is part of the system.....
once you know you got a .25"MOA ...gun
practice off a good bi pod.... tri-pod or back pack....

 

[StanleyActual]

Well..... we all got opinions......
but if you want to find out how accurate your rifle is....use a bench and bags....
of which the shooter is part of the system.....
once you know you got a .25"MOA ...gun
practice off a good bi pod.... tri-pod or back pack....

How is a sitting bench and bags any more stable than prone, bipod and bags?

I think that just comes down to shooter comfort. Some guys cannot physically get in the prone comfortably and I get that, but a bench and bags is no more stable than prone , bipod and rear bag unless you have your rifle in a vise.

 

[SWHandldr]

quote from 62flint:
"So I asked this question because maybe my expectations where to high for a out of the box production rifle. Even though it's guaranteed to be sub moa"


I'm certainly not saying it's impossible…..but to ask that of an "out of the box production rifle" is asking a lot!

With some bedding, barrel preparation, trigger work, ect. can then put it into the realm of very doable……but then, it's not longer "out of the box production"!

Not trying to be overly critical, as this may be just word semantics, but words do mean things!


Getting into the area that you desire is certainly doable, but may require a little at home tuning! You certainly don't need to go "full blown custom"! Good Luck with your endeavor ! memtb

Amen! A factory rifle (my definition: anything not built, tested & tuned by a gunsmith) that shoots to its )full potential 'out of the box' is the exception rather than the rule. It happens and it means we got a "good 'un."

Most factory rifles, even from highly-regarded mfr's, can shoot smaller groups with a little personal attention - if the owner knows what they're doing. (How do ya get to Carnegie Hall? PRACTICE.)

Some combination of bedding, checking & relieving the barrel channel if needed, careful polishing & lightning the trigger, maybe recrowning the muzzle can usually do it. If you don't know how (especially the last two) find a smith who knows what he's doing & pay him.

I taught myself cuz I had two daughters in college at the same time; greenbacks were scarce.

A hunting gun (sporter weight barrel, six to 10 lbs all up, depending on caliber) consistently placing three rounds under an inch from a 100 yard bench, starting from a cold bore is likely NOT the limiting factor out to 3 to 500 yards. Longer range, better to test at 300 yards or more - and shooter ability, calling wind, a decent rangefinder and the kind of real-word rest one can manage combine to make the firearm's inherent accuracy less important. Unless it's minute of pie plate at 100 yards.

Also, it's hard to imagine anyone interested in "across the canyon" shots, where one cannot get closer, not testing their ammo before leaving (and confirming accuracy on arrival). Premium factory or good handloads (a whole different can of worms) are likely to provide more precision & accuracy than a box of basic hunting loads from a big-box store (though sometimes we get lucky).

We all want a hunting rifle that isn't the limiting factor. Unless a hunter has honed their own skills (like the OP, with a thousand yard range out the back door) it rarely is.

 

[DoneNOut]

Well..... we all got opinions......
but if you want to find out how accurate your rifle is....use a bench and bags....
of which the shooter is part of the system.....
once you know you got a .25"MOA ...gun
practice off a good bi pod.... tri-pod or back pack....

Amen. If I could set up a machine to pull the trigger to eliminate all human error while load developing I/well everyone would save components and time. Then you you go off shooting hunting, shooting positions, one can attribute the deviation of that precision or accuracy to the Indian.

 

[DoneNOut]

How is a sitting bench and bags any more stable than prone, bipod and bags?

I think that just comes down to shooter comfort. Some guys cannot physically get in the prone comfortably and I get that, but a bench and bags is no more stable than prone , bipod and rear bag unless you have your rifle in a vise.

I rarely shoot prone hunting though. 99% of the time I got to see over some shrubbery, cattle, and whatnots! Since the animals don't shoot back, I am perfecting my 4 wheeler rest positions, truck window, and throwing a light fill bag over a log, some makeshift stuff.