I have recently had a rifle built on a defiance tenacity long action (7mm SAUM) and following the gunsmith's recommendation I chose to have the rifle shipped with the stainless steel picatinny rail. After the rifle was delivered, I am still not completely convinced that I like the rail and I think using the talley mounts it would be easier to top load the magazine. My question is whether going from the rail to the two piece talley rings should result in a loss of some rigidity of the action and degradation of the rifle's accuracy? Do you have any experience/suggestion? I like the looks and user friendliness of the talley rings but I would prefer not to sacrifice any accuracy. Also, am I missing any of the other advantages of a rail one should consider? Lastly, can anyone tell me whether the scope mounting threads on the tenacity are 8-40 or 6-48. Thank you, Ferenc
rail vs. talley mount on defiance tenacity
- Thread starter Ftothfadd
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"I" prefer a rail for its flexibility in positioning the scope where I need it - best for my eye relief and centering the rings for even pressure on the tube. Loading with rails has never been an issue for me. I believe you have 8-40 screws. Good luck with your build.
Jnm300ultra
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Ferenc, I just went through something similar with my Defiance action. I have a Anti in long action. The scope was to compact for the Talley rings. All the scopes seem to be more compact, hence the reason why Fennix, said he personally likes a rail. Your action is built like a tank and I won't worry about the action being rigid weighs 2 lbs. If weight of the rail is a concern they probably have one in aluminum mine is, on the Anti action. I looked up on Defiance website and this is your action.
Jason
- Stainless steel, 20 MOA picatinny scope mount, attached with 8-40 screws, and 1/8" hardened dowel pins, or Talley Manufacturing one-piece Lightweight Alloy Scope Mounts.
Jason
Ditching the rail is going to shed as much weight as small pocket knife. Ditching the rail is going to also limit where you can position the optic. Ditching the rail in theory is going to make the action less rigid but its such a miniscule amount that you wouldn't know it. Is the rifle a single feed set up? Because if not then loading the magazine is something you might do once a day in the field so the rail "being in the way" isn't as big of a problem as you might think.
There are 2 peice picatinny rails out there that offer you a bit more space under the optic with a little more forgiveness in optic placement. I've also cut the middle section out of a one peice rail before to accomplish the same goal.
There are 2 peice picatinny rails out there that offer you a bit more space under the optic with a little more forgiveness in optic placement. I've also cut the middle section out of a one peice rail before to accomplish the same goal.
Rhett Crider
Well-Known Member
All my rifles have rails and do not interfere w/ loading the mag but I'm not a speed loader. You can always change to DBM if it's an issue. Faster yet. I agree w/ Feenix as far as scope alignment goes also.
adk hunter
Well-Known Member
Burris two piece reversible will get you there and still use cross-bolt style rings. Rock solid and you can hand carry with your thumb through there under the scope...my preference. I have talley's too on lightest rifles with no issues but I don't put a >2# scope in them either.
lancetkenyon
Well-Known Member
All my rifles have a Picatinny rail set up. Either integral to the action, or a rail mounted after. I have never had an issue top loading a BDL setup with a full length Picatinny rail. LA and SA both. Magnum or standard. From 6.5CM to .300RUM.
My likes for a rail are two-fold:
1. Adjustability. If someone else is using my rifles, I can change eye relief very easily to fit the shooter.
2. Ability to swap scopes quickly. If something were to happen to a scope in the field, I can swap scopes easily. I usually take a second scope already zeroed for my primary rifle on a hunt with me. If, God forbid,I were to drop a rifle and damage a scope, it is a walk back to the truck, 5 minutes to swap the new scope on, and continue hunting. (Or grab the spare rifle).
You can always swap to an alloy rail if you want to shed 2oz. Or, take a swig of that water bottle in your pack to lighten the weight of the bottle, and don't sweat the weight of the rail.
If you opt for a one-piece rail/ring setup, please, choose Hawkins Hybrid rings. Much better than Talley.
My likes for a rail are two-fold:
1. Adjustability. If someone else is using my rifles, I can change eye relief very easily to fit the shooter.
2. Ability to swap scopes quickly. If something were to happen to a scope in the field, I can swap scopes easily. I usually take a second scope already zeroed for my primary rifle on a hunt with me. If, God forbid,I were to drop a rifle and damage a scope, it is a walk back to the truck, 5 minutes to swap the new scope on, and continue hunting. (Or grab the spare rifle).
You can always swap to an alloy rail if you want to shed 2oz. Or, take a swig of that water bottle in your pack to lighten the weight of the bottle, and don't sweat the weight of the rail.
If you opt for a one-piece rail/ring setup, please, choose Hawkins Hybrid rings. Much better than Talley.
Thank you guys, very informative. I am not worried about the weight, I am in pretty decent shape and the rifle with the rail (unscoped) weighs 6# 14 oz, so scoped it will be ~8# which is nothing. My issue is that in my sako rifles I have two piece mounts and on my blaser a rail mount and I find those super easy to top load. Not so much with this rifle with the rail on the top of the action trying to stuff the stubby 7 mm SAUM rounds in. But I might just get used to it... Indeed it is usually loaded once a day (hopefully) being a mainly hunting rifle. My only concern with the rail is the loading the rifle, and if you have to stuff in a couple extra rounds in a haste...
Rick Richard
Well-Known Member
As everyone has said….rail.
Dang, I was really hoping for at least a split decision so I could have ordered the talley/hawkins two piece mounts... I guess it will be a rail as of now and I will try to get used to top loading the mag underneath the rail. Thank you!
Go with your personal preference, not ours.
Shane Lindsey
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I have had a few Talleys. I like the design, however as mentioned, you are limited to eye relief. Some actions let you swap directions on set up, but not all. As mentioned, once it is set, it is set, you cannot adjust as easily as pic mounts. I have had Talleys come unbuttoned from the receiver on a 308 win and I swore them off for many years. Recently put a set on a Savage and they seemed fine, but eye relief was always an issue. There is only so much space on the tube before you start going up the bell. It now has a pic rail back on it...
I also have a set of Hawkins Hybrids and really like them. They just seem "beefier" and have done fine with a heavy scope and 7mag recoil. If looking for a lightweight 1" tube, these do not work, as they only make 30/34" I believe.
I also have a set of Hawkins Hybrids and really like them. They just seem "beefier" and have done fine with a heavy scope and 7mag recoil. If looking for a lightweight 1" tube, these do not work, as they only make 30/34" I believe.
