Aluminum Tipped Bullets from Goergia by Greyghostt

[Lightvarmint]

James:

What do you mean by dual diameter and dual jacket? Bonded I understand. Have you settled on a BC of 0.927 for that 220?

Thank you very much!!

Hello,

-Dual diameter means that you can move the ogive back to anywhere you want it (within reason). This usually helps on long slender bullets say like a 7mm where the bullet sticks way down into the powder column so that you can move it out toward the lands and away from the powder column. Now when you do this, it is basically a single shot option only.

-Dual jacket is where you would for instance have a .308 bullet with a jacket of .030". The inside of the bullet would mike out at around .248". Now you can seat the .243 jacket inside the .308 jacket and then seat the lead core to completely form the jacket an eliminate the voids. So in reality, for the .308 bullet, you would have .120" of copper and the balance in lead.

We finally got the scope issues resolved and we will be shooting for BC tomorrow pending cooperation of the weather.... The BCs should be in the range of high .8s or low .9s for the 220. The .927 was just a number we were using as a thumb rule for comparison.

Thanks for your interest.

James

 

[Lightvarmint]

Hello,

Okay, here goes...... I am sure this will stir the pot some, but the sea level velocity-derived BC we are going to advertise for the 220 Aluminum tipped bullets is .900+. The lowest BC we saw was above .900 but to be conservative we will standby .900.... You should always get greater than the .900 value when you conduct your testing. That is unless you are below sea level.

These bullets will not stabilize in a 10" twist at normal velocities and should be considered for single shots only unless you get some magazine well work done.

Again, the BC is .900+................ But under 1.000!

The data was shot out of a 32" barrel in 30/378. We got/use 3274.9 for a muzzle velocity. This gives 5 to 7 reloadings on the case with our Retumbo powder charges

Contact me via email or PM or the bulletsmith at [email protected]

Remember two t's in bullett

James

 

[Ernie]

I would be curious to see what field BC you come up with using a smaller cartridge, as the 308 Win, 30-06.
Do you have the ability to test at those lower MV's?

 

[Lightvarmint]

I would be curious to see what field BC you come up with using a smaller cartridge, as the 308 Win, 30-06.
Do you have the ability to test at those lower MV's?

Ernie,

We don't have 8" twist barrels in the smaller sized cases and therefore they will not stabilize.

The 220 is probably really too big for the smaller cases. However, there is the 210 and that should work nicely in say a 9" twist or faster. Then, you have the 180 with the BC of the 240 SMK (will stabilize in a 10" twist) and we know how well that does in the Wichita Pistol. Actually the Wichita Pistol tries to embarrass the rifles. At times, I can hear them in the safe arguing who is the most inherently accurate.

James

 

[Lightvarmint]

Hello,

When we were zeroing our gun at 400 yards a few days back, the 220s held slightly under .25 moa accuracy level with some cull bullets used for fouling the barrel. In other words, less than a click on the Nghtforce NXS.

James

 

[Varminator 911]

question on longer dies and cost?

James:

You mentioned recently that some longer dies were in or coming soon. Does that mean even higher BC bullets might be coming? One reason I ask is that Wildcat had some experimental Al tipped 338 that Kirby has highlighted. He spoke of a 265-266 that was 1.92 iches long with 0.96 bc and a 311 that was over 2.25 inches!!!, no bc mentioned. These bullets are considerably longer and more aggressive than Henson's current 338. Kirby said they shot very well. I'm sure your man could do the same, but does he plan anything in that direction?

I don't doubt the accuracy but would hope to hear others report on that soon. For me all that leaves is on game performance. Seems that one could get whatever they need there by going dual core if needed.

For some there is the cost factor. Which isn't a big consideration for me since I'll never be shooting hundreds per day. But just for information purposes could you give us an idea of cost. Doing it here might save Henson answering a few emails. If you'd rather not, I'll send him a note.

Thank you!!!

 

[Lightvarmint]

James:

You mentioned recently that some longer dies were in or coming soon. Does that mean even higher BC bullets might be coming? One reason I ask is that Wildcat had some experimental Al tipped 338 that Kirby has highlighted. He spoke of a 265-266 that was 1.92 iches long with 0.96 bc and a 311 that was over 2.25 inches!!!, no bc mentioned. These bullets are considerably longer and more aggressive than Henson's current 338. Kirby said they shot very well. I'm sure your man could do the same, but does he plan anything in that direction?

I don't doubt the accuracy but would hope to hear others report on that soon. For me all that leaves is on game performance. Seems that one could get whatever they need there by going dual core if needed.

For some there is the cost factor. Which isn't a big consideration for me since I'll never be shooting hundreds per day. But just for information purposes could you give us an idea of cost. Doing it here might save Henson answering a few emails. If you'd rather not, I'll send him a note.

Thank you!!!

Yes, longer bullets will be available in the future. The sky is basically the limit...... Longer tips can be manufactured and longer dies can be utilized for both longer aluminum and copper components. You can displace lead with aluminum and make very long lightweight bullets. All of these tweeks are feasible to make, but, we are at the mercy of the barrel makers with respect to twist rates. Increasing the bearing length and OAL requires more twist when you reach a threshold limit. Longer bearing surfaces are more restrictive in pressure as well. There is no reason to manufacture longer bullets that will not stabilize in the available .338 barrel twists.

Remember, Mr Henson's operation is on the ground floor in the aluminum tipped bullet world and the consumer demands will ultimately drive the bullet sizes and weights that are different from the current 265 and 280 offerings.

On the Wildcat bullets, I have not seen any. But, a .96 BC in a 265 grain .338 sounds as though it is not a sea level BC. It sounds more like a higher elevation BC that is not corrected for elevation. However, if he has a .96 sea level BC aluminum tipped bullet that performs well on game and in flight, then that is a good product.

James

 

[Fiftydriver]

LV,

The .960 BC value was what I developed from measuring bullet drop tests from 100 to 3008 yards in my 338 Allen Magnum loaded to 3475 fps.

Accuracy at 500 yards was often 1/5 moa. In good conditions 1/2 moa three shot groups at 1000 yards was not a challange. 3/4 to 1 moa was pretty easy to achieve at 2000 yard tests and I also got several 1 moa groups at +3000 yards with my 338 AM. This is the only combination I have ever fired that was consistant to this level of accuracy at these ranges.

Elevation was 3500 ft, temps of roughly 40 to 60 degrees for testing. Bar pressure ranged from 26.10 to 26.40 at elevation, not corrected for sea level. Humidy was in the 15 to 20% range for all tests.

Certainly BC will be effected by elevation, Humidy and Bar pressure changes but I doubt there would be many situations where it would drop below .9 BC.

On game, I have only been able to take two big game animals with them, one a 1100 lb bull elk at 607 yards with a single shot from my 338 Allen Xpress(3000 fps muzzle velocity). On a broad side shot, that bullet hit a rib going in and exited with a 1.5" exit hole. THe big bull ran 30 yards and fell over dead before I could get another round headed his way.

The second was a pronghorn last fall at 1300 yards out of my 338 Allen Magnum(3475 fps muzzle velocity). Damage to the pronghorn was much more dramatic due to the nearly 500 fps increase in velocity but also the thin skinned target game.

Both bullets fully exited with obvious expansion and very straight penetration although no heavy bone was hit on the elk I have never seen a mature bullet drop that quickly to a clean chest shot with no support bone hit.

Just some background on these bullets. IF he could only get jackets we could all be testing them as well as the pills you have been playing with which are another great option.

 

[goodgrouper]

I must apologize. I have been so busy since the br match that I haven't had time to go shoot the .338's until last week. Then when I went to get some newspaper to shoot the bullets into, I couldn't find any anywhere! I guess people stopped filling the recycle bins for the 4th of July or something! But I am going to go make another pass at it this weekend and hopefully I will be more successful this time.

Since I've been so busy, I haven't followed this thread since page 2 or 3. I'm sure I have missed some good stuff but I just wanted to ask a couple questions without reading all 15 pages or so.

Ok, what is the sea level bc of the .338 280's and 265's? Just curious because I'm going to do a bc test at 5000' while I do the media test.

What is the price and quantity of bullets to each box on these bullets?

What is the typical time frame to expect from order to delivery? I am used to waiting a month or so for my benchrest bullets, but I have been waiting for 3 years for some other bullets from the north country!

Has anyone besides DaveWilson tested terminal ballistics of these bullets? I have seen people get all excited over bc before and totally forget that terminal ballistics are more important than exterior ballistics if you are hunting with the projectile!

Thanks,
GG

 

[royinidaho]

GG,

Tomorrow is shoot the pig day and I've used all of mine.

I haven't been able to get any exotic type bullets for this test.

 

[davewilson]

Roy, i don't think they'd make it through the pig!

GG, i've heard they're in the 1.25-1.50 apiece bracket

 

[Fiftydriver]

More like $1.60 each.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Dont know why I didn't read this thread until now, but these bullets sound like they have a lot of potential. I sure am interested in reading about the terminal ballistics.

I think my approach will be to have them as the long range option and use the standard premium bullets for shorter ranges.

I currently have a SAKO 300 WSM with a 24", 1-11 twist. Do you think the 180's will stabalize in that @3100 fps?

 

[Lightvarmint]

I must apologize. I have been so busy since the br match that I haven't had time to go shoot the .338's until last week. Then when I went to get some newspaper to shoot the bullets into, I couldn't find any anywhere! I guess people stopped filling the recycle bins for the 4th of July or something! But I am going to go make another pass at it this weekend and hopefully I will be more successful this time.

Since I've been so busy, I haven't followed this thread since page 2 or 3. I'm sure I have missed some good stuff but I just wanted to ask a couple questions without reading all 15 pages or so.

Ok, what is the sea level bc of the .338 280's and 265's? Just curious because I'm going to do a bc test at 5000' while I do the media test.

What is the price and quantity of bullets to each box on these bullets?

What is the typical time frame to expect from order to delivery? I am used to waiting a month or so for my benchrest bullets, but I have been waiting for 3 years for some other bullets from the north country!

Has anyone besides DaveWilson tested terminal ballistics of these bullets? I have seen people get all excited over bc before and totally forget that terminal ballistics are more important than exterior ballistics if you are hunting with the projectile!

Thanks,
GG

GG,

He makes them in runs and this week as well as next week is the .338 run. The BCs we have are not based on drop charts or influenced by mirage, wind and shooter hold. They are based on velocity loss over 200 yards and some tests even at 400 yards. With drop charts to derive BC the rifles accuracy as well as the shooters hold come into play and influence the data. The velocity sea level derived BCs are .770 for the 265s and .878 for the 280s. As you know the BC goes up with altitude and we have gotten reports of over 1.2 at some locations.

But to keep things simple and to minimize all possible variables we will continue to use the velocity method as we feel it is more accurate and repeatable and less influenced by conditions. For instance, mirage will affect apparent bullet drop and influence the BC. When using the velocity method only the air density and aerodynamics depreciate the velocity. Anyway those numbers are on the minimum side of what you should see when you shoot them. If you are above sea level, then you will be pleasantly suprised at their performance.

Jackets are available and he has a constant supply of components to manufacture the bullets. I see no reason why you would ever have to wait over a month unless you just missed one run and had to wait until the next. When you order, he places your name on the run and assigns the number ordered to you.

As far as terminal testing, our season opens 8/15 and if the right one walks out we will have a meat test. Additionally, we have a hunter up in AK getting ready for a mountain hunt of some sort. I am sure he will have some reports. I have a lot of confidence in the .030" jackets ability to both expand and to provide the proper amount of terminal energy to dispatch game.

I will PM you the shipped prices.

James