7mm or 30 cal? Just for curiosity’s sake

[Hand Skills]

I once owned a 7mm RM, and killed a fair amount of large big game ( elk/moose) with it using 160 and 175 Nosler Partitions. I later switched to 300 WM using 180 and 200 gr. Partitions. Comparable bullets and velocity, but more frontal area and weight proved to me that the big 30's are more lethal. That said, I do hunt with a lovely semi-custom Ruger Mk 2 in 284 Win. that I just love for deer hunting. While either caliber will do the job, I lean towards the big 30's for large big game.

I felt the same way for many years. On elk and moose, the .30cals just seemed to do more damage. For myself and many others the 180grain Nosler Partition has been the benchmark for terminal performance.

When it comes to long range, however, there aren't too many folks shooting Nosler partitions.

Im not an expert, but around here it seems to me the benchmark projectile for long range in 30cal is the Berger 215gr hybrid.

At 600yd, I would rather be shooting one of those in a. 308win, than a 180gr partition out of a 300 win mag.

7mm vs .30? Good question!

With old fashion bullets, the .30 was the historic favorite. But, times change and technology improves. With modern bullets that hold together well, the 7mm is the clear winner. The 7mm will easily take anything in North America, and grain for grain, the 7mm has a better BC than the .30 cal.

I agree - technology has improved. If applied appropriately, real gains can be leveraged. Unfortunately, that can take some trial and error - take the (7mm) 160gr Accubond, for instance. I have had markedly poor performance when engaging deer at moderate velocity. They just poke a hole. The target is too soft, and the bullet is too hard. Compared to a 140gr Absolute Hammer at high speed, the results couldn't be more different.

I've gotta say, for me, projectile choice is more important than caliber (or even cartridge for that matter).

I haven voted yet. Kind of sad to see 30cal falling behind, but I agree with @Ben Keller - recoil is a consideration.

 

[mmgravy]

7mm for the win.... I love my STW!!

 

[mrbigtexan]

I love the 7mm, I have a 7mm Remington Magnum, 7mm Mauser, 7mm-08, and I used to have a 7mm SAUM. The only 30 I have is a 308. I also have 2 270's!!

 

[MagnumManiac]

With everything that's been said about the 7's bucking the wind better over a 30.
Most are comparing similar bullet weights, 175's/180's is about max in a standard 7 twist of 9.25 or so.
Max bullet weight in a 10" twist 30 is a 230gr without drama.
Which has the higher BC?
The difference between a 180g 30 and a 180g 7 is barely anything in the real world, maybe an INCH difference on target.
I get the love for 7's, I now own one, but to be honest, the LR game starts at 338 and goes up.
I know my 338-416 Rigby Improved is miles ahead of any 6.5/7/30 in spades of energy and less drop and wind drift.
My 264WM shoots a little flatter than my 300WM, but my 7STW is a little flatter than both with the RIGHT bullet, twist is the determining factor here.
If your rifle hasn't got a fast enough twist, then it's not in contention.
I am only now seeing the light, I won't change my 10 twist 30's, there's no need, but I have gone 7" on a 22-250AI, 9" twist 338's, 8" twist 6.5's, 9" twist 270 and a 10" twist 375. Even my 505 Gibbs had a 10" twist.

Cheers.

 

[Sending156s]

I don't agree, and let me explain why grumpy. I've owned multiple 7s over the course of my lifetime, with some being the cheapest on the shelf and some being completely custom. I've owned and been around various other 30s as well. One thing that is more practical about some of the 7s, in terms of long range hunting, is that not all of them require a brake to maintain a decent level of recoil. Sure I would still put a brake on a 28 Nosler, but my 7mm Rem. Mag doesn't need one and it's 9.2 lbs. it's a 1000 yard gun all day. I don't know of a .30 cal that can shoot 3000 plus FPS that does not need a brake. It's a very practical benefit in my young and grouchy opinion.

The 300 WMs used as sniper rifles a long time ago didn't have brakes. Though, the ability of the sniper to effectively use them depended on their sensitivity to recoil.

 

[wilkup]

The 300 WMs used as sniper rifles a long time ago didn't have brakes. Though, the ability of the sniper to effectively use them depended on their sensitivity to recoil.

Jut curious what the average weight for one of those old school 300s might have been. I know the Tikka T3 I used to have in 300WM really put a pounding on my shoulder to the point I sold it. Just couldn't get past the jolt each year I'd recheck my zero. I also am not the biggest fan of muzzle brakes, so the 7 is the best of everything for my needs - lighter recoil included.

 

[Gcan]

Question says it all. The 22s, 6mm, 6.5, and .338 bore are all pretty common here but it I think it's safe to say the big 7mms and 30s are the unchallenged all range all purpose hunting versatility kings. I bet pretty much everyone on here has at least one 7mm or 30 caliber rifle.

im a 30 guy myself, .300 win mag being my favourite cartridge to play with, .30-30 being what I learned to shoot centerfire rifle with.

but I only bought my first .300 because my other rifle was a .270 win and I wanted a more significant difference in performance than what a 7 would gain. No regrets. But if I didn't already have a 270 I may have gone 7mm mag and had no reason for a .300 or a 270, who knows?

the 7mms are objectively the best of all worlds for long range hit probability. The 180 eld m for example has a bc of .79. There are no similar bc bullets of lesser diameter that I'm aware of and to exceed this bc significantly starts at the 250 atip or such. That's a huge jump. Not to many 30s, if any, will be launching a 225-250 grain at comprable speeds to a 7stw or 28 Nosler with that 180, and if they do it won't be in as portable or pleasant to shoot package.

that said, I maintain the big 30s hit and affect big game very noticeably harder than the 6.5, .270, and 7mm cartridges so they get the nod from me

Now for the just for fun question. If you could only own and shoot either a 7mm or a .30, not both, which would you choose?

30 all day. 300 WM, 300 Norma, 300PRC and 300 RUM in that order. That doesn't include things like 30/378 or others. 7mm is not even a close second. SD rules for stopping animals and ppl. IMO There's a reason US Mil went to 300 PRC and not a 7mm anything to make lethal hits to 2000 yards. For me that's pretty relevant to the 7mm/30 cal discussion.

 

[FEENIX]

With everything that's been said about the 7's bucking the wind better over a 30.
Most are comparing similar bullet weights, 175's/180's is about max in a standard 7 twist of 9.25 or so.
Max bullet weight in a 10" twist 30 is a 230gr without drama.
Which has the higher BC?
The difference between a 180g 30 and a 180g 7 is barely anything in the real world, maybe an INCH difference on target.
I get the love for 7's, I now own one, but to be honest, the LR game starts at 338 and goes up.
I know my 338-416 Rigby Improved is miles ahead of any 6.5/7/30 in spades of energy and less drop and wind drift.
My 264WM shoots a little flatter than my 300WM, but my 7STW is a little flatter than both with the RIGHT bullet, twist is the determining factor here.
If your rifle hasn't got a fast enough twist, then it's not in contention.
I am only now seeing the light, I won't change my 10 twist 30's, there's no need, but I have gone 7" on a 22-250AI, 9" twist 338's, 8" twist 6.5's, 9" twist 270 and a 10" twist 375. Even my 505 Gibbs had a 10" twist.

Cheers.

Agreed, there are many factors, so let's simplify it a bit. Let's take Berger's highest BC offerings in each caliber, and let's make the rifles identical (factory), too, except for the chambering.

Which one would you pick?

195g with a G1 of .755 out of a 7MM RUM

or

245g with G1 of .807 out of a .300 RUM?

 

[Raudy707]

Its a scientific fact men are getting weaker and aren't as strong as their fathers or grandfather's before them. We are soft. Hence the muzzle brakes, super soft recoil pads and more men being recoil sensitive. I think in another decade we will be having this same poll only the 6.5's will be stomping the 7mm's.

 

[meatyrem]

If I had to get rid of all I have and only keep one for everything
I'd likely keep my 300RUM

 

[FEENIX]

I think in another decade we will be having this same poll only the 6.5's will be stomping the 7mm's.

The .264 WM vs. the 7MM RM would have been a better poll since they have similar case capacity.

 

[wilkup]

Agreed, there are many factors so let's simply if it a bit. Let's take Berger's highest BC offerings in each caliber, and let's make the rifles identical (factory), too, except for the chambering.

Which one would you pick?

195g with a G1 of .755 out of a 7MM RUM or 245g with G1 of .807 out of a .300 RUM?

It'd need to be simplified further...
Distance and what game you'd be hunting.
Inside 700 yards and limited to hunting in the lower 48... I really think it'd be a toss up between those two choices.

 

[Greyfox]

Perhaps influenced by Jack O'Connors lack of enthusiasm for the 7mmMag in his writings during my younger years, I have never owned a 7mmMag. I spent over half of my five+ decades of shooting and hunting with the 30's(30-30, 30-06, 308, 300WM). With medium game(deer, antelope) my predominate quarry for the last 20 years or so, after some time with the 270 I gave the 6.5x284 a try and never looked back. I have had exceptional results out to +1000 yards. For larger NA game and ELR shooting, my choice would be my 300WM.

 

[FEENIX]

It'd need to be simplified further...
Distance and what game you'd be hunting.
Inside 700 yards and limited to hunting in the lower 48... I really think it'd be a toss up between those two choices.

Brother, you actually made it more complicated. My response to @MagnumManiac is about BC and the ability to buck the wind. No target/game designation or range parameters, just the ability to deliver the projectile to range X. We all know that BCs, for the example I noted, is best realized 1K yards and beyond. There are NUTS behind the trigger that takes LR to some crazy levels.