Tuning for long range

So when you say 3 shot groups, you mean of the same load? Like it's usually done at 100 yards? Not for example 3 loads of 60, 60.3 and 60.6 at one aim point and then 60.9, 61.2 and 61.5 at the next aim point and so on....? Regardless though, I will try your system at longer distances when the opportunity presents itself. Thank you for your response.
 
Yes, 3 shot groups of the same load. This method is a compromise. Its an adaption of how I tune Benchrest rifles for 1k, but with those you can run a 4 groups of 3 quickly and get very good data. With a hunting rifle I dont like to shoot more one 3 shot group at a time. The single shot ladder is just a very efficient way to get you close. I still like seeing 3 shot groups to verify.
 
I shoot with Alex a few times in the summer at 1k in BR. I bring my hunting rifles and get them shooting good at that time. Here is an example of what I did at 100 yards and then what 1k looked like. It's a 338 Edge. 338's hold up better than anything else at 1k from day to day. It ended up shooting 3" at 1k. I can get close at shorter ranges. But there is always some fine tuning at long range.
 

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I want to explain things a little more, because I think it helps when you know why your doing something. Just about every good tuning method is basically doing the same thing, the format is just different. A sine wave target like I described above for shooting 100yds, is the same thing as a ladder test. The difference is a ladder is shot at the same poi. The look totally different but you read them the same way. Your still looking for the spot the barrel harmonics slow down when they are changing directions. This is at the barrels extreme end of travel. On the sine wave target or something like the ocw method that spot will look like 3 consecutive groups (for example) with similar poi at the top or bottom of the "wave". When you shoot a ladder it will look like a group of 3 shots (or 9 shots if you shoot 3 shot groups in the ladder format like I often do) with vertical stringing above and below. Its exactly the same thing, one is just spread out on a horizontal line the other is all up and down because we shoot ladders at the same poa. I recommend the sine wave target at short range because a ladder just ends up looking like a big hole and you cant read it. In both methods we are looking at barrel harmonics and where the barrel is pointing as much as we are looking at the groups. Thats why you get vertical in a group, its when the barrel is moving quickly. Just remember its all about timing the bullets exit during the harmonic pattern of the barrel. Now the ONLY reason I prefer the ladder format at long range, is that it takes into account trajectory. The trajectory can help you or hurt you at long range depending on where your load is timed to the harmonics (search positive compensation). The other reason is the ladder format takes up much less space on the target, at 1k thats important. But you could gain the exact same information if you shot a sine wave target at 1k as the ladder, you just need to understand how to read them.
 
I want to explain things a little more, because I think it helps when you know why your doing something. Just about every good tuning method is basically doing the same thing, the format is just different. A sine wave target like I described above for shooting 100yds, is the same thing as a ladder test. The difference is a ladder is shot at the same poi. The look totally different but you read them the same way. Your still looking for the spot the barrel harmonics slow down when they are changing directions. This is at the barrels extreme end of travel. On the sine wave target or something like the ocw method that spot will look like 3 consecutive groups (for example) with similar poi at the top or bottom of the "wave". When you shoot a ladder it will look like a group of 3 shots (or 9 shots if you shoot 3 shot groups in the ladder format like I often do) with vertical stringing above and below. Its exactly the same thing, one is just spread out on a horizontal line the other is all up and down because we shoot ladders at the same poa. I recommend the sine wave target at short range because a ladder just ends up looking like a big hole and you cant read it. In both methods we are looking at barrel harmonics and where the barrel is pointing as much as we are looking at the groups. Thats why you get vertical in a group, its when the barrel is moving quickly. Just remember its all about timing the bullets exit during the harmonic pattern of the barrel. Now the ONLY reason I prefer the ladder format at long range, is that it takes into account trajectory. The trajectory can help you or hurt you at long range depending on where your load is timed to the harmonics (search positive compensation). The other reason is the ladder format takes up much less space on the target, at 1k thats important. But you could gain the exact same information if you shot a sine wave target at 1k as the ladder, you just need to understand how to read them.
When you shoot your groups, do you use the same .6% increment in loafs?
 
Yes, in general. Keep in mind this in not a rule. If its a new cartridge you have never worked with and you want to cover more ground go coarser, if your really close and you want to fine tune go finer.
 
It can be hard to visualize whats happening. We want the barrel traveling up when our bullets are exiting. You know this is happening when you increase powder charge and the poi drops. Faster bullets leave lower than slower ones when the barrel is traveling up. You best grouping will usually happen at some point very near where the barrel stops and changes direction (top or bottom). My original description may not have been the best because it will be hard to see small poi changes in a hunting rifle platform. Focus on the high and low points of the wave. Once you find a good load, I would also load some a few tenths on both sides of it and test it at distance to see if it holds up and if not, which way it wants you to go. If you have no access to shoot past 100yds at all, then you have no way to verify your load at long range and I would limit shots to 500 or so.
Alex what percentage do you feel that your success is at getting a rifle to shoot .25 moa and what point do you give up and go another route. David
 
Just did 2 ladders at 300 yards with my 28" heavy Bartlein 9 twist 7-300 win mag with 180g ELDMs and H1000 and RL26. Haven't done the 3 shot groups yet, but it looks like I have a nice node around 71.5-72.5 of H1000 and 69.5-71 of RL26.
 

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Looking for input 910 yard ladder. Did all the reading I can find by Alex Wheeler and Ryan Furman about ladder testing. I think I know what I'm looking at but want input the 2 low velocity (odd) rounds have me a little confused. I cleaned up the target to make it easier to read (horizonal).
 

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Just did 2 ladders at 300 yards with my 28" heavy Bartlein 9 twist 7-300 win mag with 180g ELDMs and H1000 and RL26. Haven't done the 3 shot groups yet, but it looks like I have a nice node around 71.5-72.5 of H1000 and 69.5-71 of RL26.

With H1000 I see some promise at 72grs and next higher node is 74grs. Target shows good data.
 
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