6.5 156 EOL

[SwampDog13]

Well I didn't have nearly the time to load or shoot as I had hoped but I still snuck out this morning. Temp was 88-91 while I was there. I was able to get the 156 elite hunter upto 3125 but was seeing some ejector marks above 60.5gn Rl16.

So I ran an abbreviated temp stability test and was totally shocked by what I found. I ran a few rounds at 60.0gn, left them out in the sun and also let them heat soak in the chamber. Had an average velocity of 3030fps with no real signs of pressure. Then I ran 5 rounds with the same charge one by one out of the cooler allowing the chamber to cool each time. Average here was 2987fps so they were definitely slower. The thing that shocked me was the slower, colder rounds showed heavy pressure signs. Strong ejector marks and very heavy bolt lift. Seems like more testing needs to happen soon.

On a good note the sd of those cold rounds was around 7 and shot under half moa at 625yds.

 

[jasonco]

Been following along, here and on LRO and now I get to participate in the fun too! After waiting a week, got me some delivered this morning. Gonna see how the 6.5X284N does with them???
This is a large long 6.5mm bullet!

 

[dok7mm]

Well I didn't have nearly the time to load or shoot as I had hoped but I still snuck out this morning. Temp was 88-91 while I was there. I was able to get the 156 elite hunter upto 3125 but was seeing some ejector marks above 60.5gn Rl16.

So I ran an abbreviated temp stability test and was totally shocked by what I found. I ran a few rounds at 60.0gn, left them out in the sun and also let them heat soak in the chamber. Had an average velocity of 3030fps with no real signs of pressure. Then I ran 5 rounds with the same charge one by one out of the cooler allowing the chamber to cool each time. Average here was 2987fps so they were definitely slower. The thing that shocked me was the slower, colder rounds showed heavy pressure signs. Strong ejector marks and very heavy bolt lift. Seems like more testing needs to happen soon.

On a good note the sd of those cold rounds was around 7 and shot under half moa at 625yds.

I'd bet you had some condensation on the cold ones and just a tiny amount will cause the case to not grab the chamber.

 

[SwampDog13]

I'd bet you had some condensation on the cold ones and just a tiny amount will cause the case to not grab the chamber.

Good thinking, I'd bet you're right.

 

[Greyfox]

I did some additional testing trying to see the effects of R26 in 85F temperature. Overall, shots from a barrel chamber at ambient temperatures tested from 65F to 85F were running at a consistent velocity of 2990, SD 5(5 shots). At 85F the other day, I purposely fired an additional 10 shots with less then 1 minute of cooling with the barrel "hot to the touch", velocity jumped to 3010FPS, SD 9(5 shots). When ai let the rifle/ammo sit for an hour(out of the sun) and retested, I was back to 2990FPS. This was a 20FPS increase due to a hot chamber, and not much different from similar tests I've done with my PRS load(6.5x47@2891FPS) at these hot summer temperatures using H4350, well established for being a very temperature stabile powder. However, my heavy barreled PRS rifle(MTU) with a lower intensity load, the % increase in velocity is less, and takes longer. All velocity work was done using my Lab Radar.
Overall, I think I've settled on a load for the Berger 156 Elite Hunter in my 6.5x284. For my hunting, rarely exceeding 75F I think any of the temperature effects seen with R26 will not be an issue. While I believe I could have run this bullet well at an additional 20-30FPS in my rifle, I was quite happy with the ballistics, and lower pressure with a velocity in the 3000FPS range. At this velocity, the 156gr Berger is very accurate with low SD's. It buys me an 20% increase in energy, getting me to 1000FPE at 1200 yards compared 1000 yards with the 140 class bullets. At this point, I'm anxious test this bullet at long range, and understand how this bullet performs on game. Shown:200 yard performance.

 

[Jud96]

I did some additional testing trying to see the effects of R26 in 85F temperature. Overall, shots from a barrel chamber at ambient temperatures tested from 65F to 85F were running at a consistent velocity of 2990, SD 5(5 shots). At 85F the other day, I purposely fired an additional 10 shots with less then 1 minute of cooling with the barrel "hot to the touch", velocity jumped to 3010FPS, SD 9(5 shots). When ai let the rifle/ammo sit for an hour(out of the sun) and retested, I was back to 2990FPS. This was a 20FPS increase due to a hot chamber, and not much different from similar tests I've done with my PRS load(6.5x47@2891FPS) at these hot summer temperatures using H4350, well established for being a very temperature stabile powder. However, my heavy barreled PRS rifle(MTU) with a lower intensity load, the % increase in velocity is less, and takes longer. All velocity work was done using my Lab Radar.
Overall, I think I've settled on a load for the Berger 156 Elite Hunter in my 6.5x284. For my hunting, rarely exceeding 75F I think any of the temperature effects seen with R26 will not be an issue. While I believe I could have run this bullet well at an additional 20-30FPS in my rifle, I was quite happy with the ballistics, and lower pressure with a velocity in the 3000FPS range. At this velocity, the 156gr Berger is very accurate with low SD's. It buys me an 20% increase in energy, getting me to 1000FPE at 1200 yards compared 1000 yards with the 140 class bullets. At this point, I'm anxious test this bullet at long range, and understand how this bullet performs on game. Shown:200 yard performance.

View attachment 142795 View attachment 142796 View attachment 142797

Great shooting and load testing! I'm surprised to see the 156 getting up to 3000fps in the 6.5x284. That's awesome!

 

[jasonco]

Great info! Didn't make it to the range to test my loads. When I built my 6.5x284N a few years ago, I guess I was expecting better velocities than the Creedmoor could put out, my 26" 6.5 Creed does does 2850fps no pressure with accuracy and the 6.5x284N does 100+ maxed out with Retumbo. My thinking was that the 6.5x284N, just needs a heavy bullet at the same velocities of the 140th class? From y'alls results, seems to be the case! I'm giving RL26 another try, again, with this 156EOL to see what my results will be?!

 

[Greyfox]

Great info! Didn't make it to the range to test my loads. When I built my 6.5x284N a few years ago, I guess I was expecting better velocities than the Creedmoor could put out, my 26" 6.5 Creed does does 2850fps no pressure with accuracy and the 6.5x284N does 100+ maxed out with Retumbo. My thinking was that the 6.5x284N, just needs a heavy bullet at the same velocities of the 140th class? From y'alls results, seems to be the case! I'm giving RL26 another try, again, with this 156EOL to see what my results will be?!

Much like the 6.5PRC, the 6.5x284 can achieve velocity of the 156gr EOL in the +3000FPS range with a free-bore of .180"-.190". This free-bore will place the base of the 140 and 156 Berger's very close to the case capacity where the shoulder meets the case body, nicely taking near full use of the case volume. I have not yet tried Retumbo, believing R26 a better choice wth the heavier bullet. Using R26, I have been able to achieve velocity of 3075FPS with the Berger 140 HVLD(54.4gr),compared to 3000-3025FPS using 57gr of a Retumbo. To achieve 3000FPS with the 156 EOL I use 54.2gr of R26. Both bullets are seated .020-.025" off the lands of my 6.5x284's with .188" free-bore. .5MOA or better groups, and SD's less then 10 is achievable at these velocities with both the 140 and 156 loads. While both Retumbo and R26 are considered slow burners, R26 has a higher density then Retumbo developing comparable velocity at lower pressure with lower charge weights. I will likely try Retumbo with the 156EOL but I suspect I'll either run out of powder space or hit pressure at 2900-2950. If I could get my hands on some N-565 I'd give this powder a try. It also looks like it could be a promising powder for the 156EOL in the 6.5x284.

 

[Longtooth32]

As I posted in another thread...showing what the "long" 6.5s looked like, next to each other...

Our left to right...160 Matrix, 156 Berger, 150 Sierra...

 

[codyadams]

Final load developement finished on my .260 AI. Max pressure was around 3000 fps, however that was a top end load, and accuracy seems to be more consistent right around 2900. I did a ocw test for accuracy, and what I can say is so far these bullets don't seem sensitive to seating depth at all. My initial pressure test work up was at .020" off, and accuracy seemed promising. I seated them back to .065" off, 2.955" or so OAL, so they would feed through my AICS mag, and accuracy is still in the high .2's to half MOA or so on the not so good loads!! They just seem to shoot very well and not be picky. I loaded up a bunch at 48.5 grains, and plan on doing a 10 shot string to check e.s. and do a temp testing, all the 3 shot groups were under 20 fps e.s., in this particular gun I have noticed with reloder 26 the lowest e.s. numbers tend to be with the best accuracy. Usually when it starts hitting the .2's and .3's, e.s. is under 20 fps, usually better than that. I will report back after my testing in a few days, hopefully on a hot one, and I'll save 10 from this batch to test in the cold this winter. These are HBN coated, so no cold welding to worry about. I just pulled a few HBN coated ELD-M's that I loaded August last year, and they pulled just as easy as when they were seated.

 

[KurtB]

Much like the 6.5PRC, the 6.5x284 can achieve velocity of the 156gr EOL in the +3000FPS range with a free-bore of .180"-.190". This free-bore will place the base of the 140 and 156 Berger's very close to the case capacity where the shoulder meets the case body, nicely taking near full use of the case volume. I have not yet tried Retumbo, believing R26 a better choice wth the heavier bullet. Using R26, I have been able to achieve velocity of 3075FPS with the Berger 140 HVLD(54.4gr),compared to 3000-3025FPS using 57gr of a Retumbo. To achieve 3000FPS with the 156 EOL I use 54.2gr of R26. Both bullets are seated .020-.025" off the lands of my 6.5x284's with .188" free-bore. .5MOA or better groups, and SD's less then 10 is achievable at these velocities with both the 140 and 156 loads. While both Retumbo and R26 are considered slow burners, R26 has a higher density then Retumbo developing comparable velocity at lower pressure with lower charge weights. I will likely try Retumbo with the 156EOL but I suspect I'll either run out of powder space or hit pressure at 2900-2950. If I could get my hands on some N-565 I'd give this powder a try. It also looks like it could be a promising powder for the 156EOL in the 6.5x284.

GreyFox, I may have missed it, but what barrel length are you using on the 6.5-284?
Thank you

 

[Greyfox]

GreyFox, I may have missed it, but what barrel length are you using on the 6.5-284?
Thank you

I'm running a 26" Criterion Light Palma with a 1:8 twist.

 

[venatic]

Just to add a little more info to the 156gr in 6.5/284 with Reloder 26.
I loaded from 53.0 to 54.2 and my rifle had slightly sticky bolt and ejector marks once I got to 53.6 worse at 53.9 and I didn't shoot the 54.2
Looks like max speed from my 24 inch barrel is going to be 2900ish and that's a warm load

 

[KMG]

Not sure if i missed this in the thread, but wondering how much of an improvement is the 156 Berger over the 160 Matrix. Bearing surface & BC primarily. Sorry if this was already discussed.