Varminator 911
Well-Known Member
Frontal area has a radius squared in there somewhere. It's closed to 36% increase in frontal area 308 vs 264, I think...lol
Larger diameter bullets allow more room for error?
- Thread starter FIGJAM
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RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
Hmmm, some math.
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
I come up with a 36.2% increase of frontal area from .264 to .308. This wss calculated on caliber size. So if caliber size is 1.5 times after impact
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
I come up with a 36.2% increase of frontal area from .264 to .308. This wss calculated on caliber size. So if caliber size is 1.5 times after impact the % increase is 36.6%
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
I come up with a 36.2% increase of frontal area from .264 to .308. This wss calculated on caliber size. So if caliber size is 1.5 times after impact the % increase is 36.6%
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
Sorry not sure what happened there.
I spent 35 years chasing and killing big game in Alaska, my entire existence was based on the pursuit of game, at the same time even as a teen I was preoccupied with using every imaginable bullet I could get my hands on, started with 30-06 in factory cartridge form to the excitement of handloading, hunting as a pre-teen roaming solo in the black spruce swamps, thick willow and alder hillsides to massive parklike birch forests
many things are different 35 years later, worn out joints and knees, fading eyesight and a much larger assortment of redundant cartridges , bigger, meaner old lady, oh and the beginnings of a bald spot attempting to blossom on top of the skull, damned hardhats anyway ....
some things remain the same ...
the obsession with shooting game with a different cartridge and bullet every hunt just to see the results
also same is ... 30 caliber still kills better than the smaller diameters
change my mind, lol
many things are different 35 years later, worn out joints and knees, fading eyesight and a much larger assortment of redundant cartridges , bigger, meaner old lady, oh and the beginnings of a bald spot attempting to blossom on top of the skull, damned hardhats anyway ....
some things remain the same ...
the obsession with shooting game with a different cartridge and bullet every hunt just to see the results
also same is ... 30 caliber still kills better than the smaller diameters
change my mind, lol
LDHunter
Well-Known Member
There is a very good reason that the 375H&H is the minimum cartridge allowed for a lot of African hunting.
I've read a LOT about hunting in Africa and it is well known that a lot of African game are seemingly tough as nails. One piece of advice I've seen repeated over and over is that shock and kinetic energy are nice to talk about but don't expect most large game to be impressed. Professional hunters seem to almost all agree on that subject.
I've seen that with elk and elk aren't nearly as tough as a lot of the African antelope species. At a certain point in size of game it becomes necessary to give up the idea of shock or kinetic energy and to focus on a large caliber bullet carrying a fair amount of weight and going pretty fast. Of course shot placement is important but it gets a bit tiresome pointing out that elephant in the room.
If you want to see shock working on a large bull elk you are more than likely looking at a minimum of a 30 caliber heavy bullet stepping out at a pretty good velocity and something more along the lines of 338 to 375 calibers being much better and approaching ideal.
I think we all get lost in the perpetual discussions of what caliber is the minimum for big game and somehow the discussions end up clouding the whole issue of optimum calibers and cartridges.
If you're going to be hunting in situations where you will have a stable rest and broadside standing shots and you're a good shot then your lighter calibers for the game being harvested will probably do most of the time. Does that sound like a sure thing? Do you want to accept that as enough? I don't.... I'm always looking at the optimum bullet for the game I intend to hunt and if it's just too much for me to handle, and one day as I age it will be, then I'll be leaving hunting that game to the younger and tougher hunters.
First rule: Use enough gun....
I've read a LOT about hunting in Africa and it is well known that a lot of African game are seemingly tough as nails. One piece of advice I've seen repeated over and over is that shock and kinetic energy are nice to talk about but don't expect most large game to be impressed. Professional hunters seem to almost all agree on that subject.
I've seen that with elk and elk aren't nearly as tough as a lot of the African antelope species. At a certain point in size of game it becomes necessary to give up the idea of shock or kinetic energy and to focus on a large caliber bullet carrying a fair amount of weight and going pretty fast. Of course shot placement is important but it gets a bit tiresome pointing out that elephant in the room.
If you want to see shock working on a large bull elk you are more than likely looking at a minimum of a 30 caliber heavy bullet stepping out at a pretty good velocity and something more along the lines of 338 to 375 calibers being much better and approaching ideal.
I think we all get lost in the perpetual discussions of what caliber is the minimum for big game and somehow the discussions end up clouding the whole issue of optimum calibers and cartridges.
If you're going to be hunting in situations where you will have a stable rest and broadside standing shots and you're a good shot then your lighter calibers for the game being harvested will probably do most of the time. Does that sound like a sure thing? Do you want to accept that as enough? I don't.... I'm always looking at the optimum bullet for the game I intend to hunt and if it's just too much for me to handle, and one day as I age it will be, then I'll be leaving hunting that game to the younger and tougher hunters.
First rule: Use enough gun....
S
shaughn
Guest
Not too mention that a portion of African game...believe that getting even with the person who poked it in the first place..is standard operating procedure.
There is a reason Cape Buffalo are talked about with respect..and since more of them are shot yearly than any other of the Big Five..there is a lot of evidence on what works and what doesn't every year...Cape on the menu..PH says .375 H&H or similar vintage and larger the better if you can shoot it well and before the monolithic bullets....soft point Woodleigh/Aframe/NP/Norfolk etc.. backed up by solids and the PH's much bigger rifle was the name of the game...show them you can shoot a 416 Rigby accurate and fast...smiles all around...lots of muscle, thick heavy loose skin..large solid bones and the disposition of a ****ed off wolverine weighing in at 600 - 2200 lbs for adults and dependent on sub species...they hang around with like minded individuals...this is an animal that you want a bullet that can traverse his entire length from any angle and all the while ripping thru muscle and smashing any heavy bone that gets in the way and still reach where they live and beyond...close range shots and many times tough heavy bullets are found trapped under the skin on the far side of the Cape after plowing thru a lot of animal...
Compared to how tough a Cape can be Elk are not that hard to kill..but bigger is better
now if Elk operated like Cape Buffalo....
So while I know I can harvest an elk with a 6.5x55 S or larger faster 6.5...the minimum I am going to reach for if long range is the name of the game is a 300 win mag with a 200 grain plus bullet or if visiting an area where the Big bears play that .375 H&H or .416 Rigby will be brought along for fun...I can reach 300 yards easy with either one and won't be tickling a Big bear with a feather if needs must.
There is a reason Cape Buffalo are talked about with respect..and since more of them are shot yearly than any other of the Big Five..there is a lot of evidence on what works and what doesn't every year...Cape on the menu..PH says .375 H&H or similar vintage and larger the better if you can shoot it well and before the monolithic bullets....soft point Woodleigh/Aframe/NP/Norfolk etc.. backed up by solids and the PH's much bigger rifle was the name of the game...show them you can shoot a 416 Rigby accurate and fast...smiles all around...lots of muscle, thick heavy loose skin..large solid bones and the disposition of a ****ed off wolverine weighing in at 600 - 2200 lbs for adults and dependent on sub species...they hang around with like minded individuals...this is an animal that you want a bullet that can traverse his entire length from any angle and all the while ripping thru muscle and smashing any heavy bone that gets in the way and still reach where they live and beyond...close range shots and many times tough heavy bullets are found trapped under the skin on the far side of the Cape after plowing thru a lot of animal...
Compared to how tough a Cape can be Elk are not that hard to kill..but bigger is better
now if Elk operated like Cape Buffalo....So while I know I can harvest an elk with a 6.5x55 S or larger faster 6.5...the minimum I am going to reach for if long range is the name of the game is a 300 win mag with a 200 grain plus bullet or if visiting an area where the Big bears play that .375 H&H or .416 Rigby will be brought along for fun...I can reach 300 yards easy with either one and won't be tickling a Big bear with a feather if needs must.
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
.....I got asked to help with the processing of a large steer. Fellow had an old .30-30 he used for such chores. I was looking over his shoulder as he shot, looked good, steer sat on its behind, shook his head, and took off running. 440 yards to the first cross fence, 220 yards to the next corner, and about half way back the along next fence before laying down long enough to get another behind the ear. Out of that box of ammo that may be the only one that didn't go as planned.
.....Was at a friends to direct the slaughter guy to the pigs, 4 about 250lbs a piece. He had a very worn 10/22 for the work. I went back to the house for coffee, and staying out of the way. 5 shots????
....Both set conditions, with some degree of experience, and yet results that fell out of expectations. Where was the variable? I suspect deviations, if not outright defections in bullet construction.
....Most of the bones examined kind of match retired bull riders, so they had plenty of time to reflect on what worked what didn't....which we continue here.
....We're so fortunate to have the quality of products available in the present, but there will always be enough variables to cause us wonder. Some defies physics, and physiology, and psychology. In my mind, Matthew in the NKJV 10:29 ish "Not a sparrow falls from the sky apart from your fathers will" is all that explains some of it, and once around that corner all of it.
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
..........Some more-what do we do with the energy that is used in transforming the bullet?
WildRose
Well-Known Member
The ELD-X gets pretty explosive with high speed impacts while the ABLR does not. The ABLR's though tend to be more finnicky during load development.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
That .375 minimum caliber limit only applies to the big 5 as far as I know.
Everything else can legally and easily be taken with a well placed shot from a 6.5, 7mm, or .30 cal with the right bullet and shot placement.
All of my friends there do most of their hunting with either a 6.5 or .270.
