Acceptable groupings for hunting?
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Plinker147
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The article I referred to in my earlier post is called "how much does it matter" on precision rifle blog. It's worth reading
el matador
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I like to focus on how small of a target I can hit rather than strictly group size. It's cool to shoot small groups of course, but for hunting a 1/8" group that's 1/2 moa off center is no better than a 1" group that's centered. If I can hit a 1 moa target consistently I feel pretty good about hunting with that load.
Bbear
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Anything 1 MOA or better, then take it out to the 500 yard target in 100 yard increments and see how it does.
Try to do most of my practice at the 400-500 yard range with most of my rifles. Only one's I don't take that far for practice is my Granddad's '94 win and the 358. I only take those out to 300 or so.
Try to do most of my practice at the 400-500 yard range with most of my rifles. Only one's I don't take that far for practice is my Granddad's '94 win and the 358. I only take those out to 300 or so.
4xforfun
Well-Known Member
Well, I read all of the posts. I am going to go the OTHER way. After all, this is LONG RANGE HUNTING, not "pie plates are like hunting " website.
If I can't get .5 MOA at the distances I am going to hunt, I am either going to reduce my yardage or get a different gun. If you are going to limit your shots to 300 yards on deer sized targets (a bit further on elk+ sized critters), then MOA will do. But, MOA will not cut it at long range IMO!!
And, if you are going after game at FOUR DIGIT ranges, .5MOA may not cut it.
Just my .02,
Tod
If I can't get .5 MOA at the distances I am going to hunt, I am either going to reduce my yardage or get a different gun. If you are going to limit your shots to 300 yards on deer sized targets (a bit further on elk+ sized critters), then MOA will do. But, MOA will not cut it at long range IMO!!
And, if you are going after game at FOUR DIGIT ranges, .5MOA may not cut it.
Just my .02,
Tod
I concur.
COBrad
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Me too.
Kansaswoodguy
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A 30-06 that shoots 3 moa... If I had to guess I would say a Remington 742?
It's a Ruger Stainless canoe paddle stock, bore is so rough it rips copper out of the jackets you can see mill marks 90degrees from the bore at the muzzle with your naked eye. I used the David Tubb fire lap system on it that reduced group sizes down to 1.25 MOA I would absolutely use David's system again if I ever acquire another gun that fouls that bad.
My long range guns typically shoot 1/2-3/4 MOA. Depending on if it's a AR or bolt gun
It's a Ruger Stainless canoe paddle stock, bore is so rough it rips copper out of the jackets you can see mill marks 90degrees from the bore at the muzzle with your naked eye. I used the David Tubb fire lap system on it that reduced group sizes down to 1.25 MOA I would absolutely use David's system again if I ever acquire another gun that fouls that bad.
My long range guns typically shoot 1/2-3/4 MOA. Depending on if it's a AR or bolt gun
ShootnMathews
Well-Known Member
For past 400 yards I really want my gun to shoot 1/2" or better groups. BUT, long range shots here are far and few between. In WV the ridges usually are 300-450 yards apart which makes 98% of shots less than 250 yards. It is not hard to hit a deer at that distance with almost any gun. Although For a clean ethical kill of the animal I always want my gun to shoot the best it can and I always shoot for a broadside double lung shot.
So, if it's a gun that I know will only be used at 300 yards or less. I am happy with 1 moa. If I'm going to a spot that a shot may be past 300 I take a gun that shoots at least 1/2 moa. Past 500 I take the gun that I have the most confidence in at that time. Usually one that shoots like Feenix's.
So, if it's a gun that I know will only be used at 300 yards or less. I am happy with 1 moa. If I'm going to a spot that a shot may be past 300 I take a gun that shoots at least 1/2 moa. Past 500 I take the gun that I have the most confidence in at that time. Usually one that shoots like Feenix's.
M Rosslee
Well-Known Member
For some perspective I think it depends on the discipline.
In South Africa we have a divided hunting community - the "kopskoot konings" and the "bladskoot bulle." (head shot guys and shoulder shot guys).
If you shoot to brain an animal or shut down its primary organs with immediate effect, you're going to need to shoot no more than MOA groups. Basically I'm setting it out as 1" x 1" at 100m and 2" x 2" at 200m (and further than that the guys usually don't attempt brain shots). These groups must be attainable consistently and the shooter must be in a comfortable position to execute shots of this nature (off of the back of a truck or a good prone or sitting position with a decent rifle rest).
If you shoot shoulder shots and your aim is to effectively damage the primary vital organs for rapid expiry of the target animal (which it should be), I'd say its subjective and dependent on the circumstances. But without playing the circumstances game - you should be able to shoot a fist-sized group at whatever distance you intend on hunting at. This is generally reflective of a medium-sized game animal's heart, which is the gold-medal in terms of primary-organs.
Consider the terrain that you will be hunting.
In South Africa, the general rule is 150m in the bushveld (dense woodland areas) and 300m on the "vlaktes" (open plains).
Farmers and hunting guides here won't let you shoot if they are uncomfortable with your shooting abilities and often a full day can be spent on the range setting rifles and frustrating one another.
It is important to be well-versed and acquainted with your firearm before entering the field and firing three shots at 1.5 MOA group size at 100m should not be too much to ask from the average hunter. That is a 1.5"x1.5" block (roughly speaking) over the shooting sticks - as the veld here as well as the close proximity to the hunted species in the bushveld do not allow for hunters to bring along the range's benchrest. Be well versed in firing rounds from positions other than the comfort of the bench.
It's important not to bring your shooting range habits into the bush... Concentrate on a quick, clean and ethical kill. You don't need a 1/4MOA grouping rifle to do that...
In South Africa we have a divided hunting community - the "kopskoot konings" and the "bladskoot bulle." (head shot guys and shoulder shot guys).
If you shoot to brain an animal or shut down its primary organs with immediate effect, you're going to need to shoot no more than MOA groups. Basically I'm setting it out as 1" x 1" at 100m and 2" x 2" at 200m (and further than that the guys usually don't attempt brain shots). These groups must be attainable consistently and the shooter must be in a comfortable position to execute shots of this nature (off of the back of a truck or a good prone or sitting position with a decent rifle rest).
If you shoot shoulder shots and your aim is to effectively damage the primary vital organs for rapid expiry of the target animal (which it should be), I'd say its subjective and dependent on the circumstances. But without playing the circumstances game - you should be able to shoot a fist-sized group at whatever distance you intend on hunting at. This is generally reflective of a medium-sized game animal's heart, which is the gold-medal in terms of primary-organs.
Consider the terrain that you will be hunting.
In South Africa, the general rule is 150m in the bushveld (dense woodland areas) and 300m on the "vlaktes" (open plains).
Farmers and hunting guides here won't let you shoot if they are uncomfortable with your shooting abilities and often a full day can be spent on the range setting rifles and frustrating one another.
It is important to be well-versed and acquainted with your firearm before entering the field and firing three shots at 1.5 MOA group size at 100m should not be too much to ask from the average hunter. That is a 1.5"x1.5" block (roughly speaking) over the shooting sticks - as the veld here as well as the close proximity to the hunted species in the bushveld do not allow for hunters to bring along the range's benchrest. Be well versed in firing rounds from positions other than the comfort of the bench.
It's important not to bring your shooting range habits into the bush... Concentrate on a quick, clean and ethical kill. You don't need a 1/4MOA grouping rifle to do that...
Welcome to LRH and enjoy!
I assure you most of the guys here knows their firearms and LRH capabilities very well. Having said that most won't probably consider 1.5 MOA at 100M to be good enough for LRH, most will always strive for half that or better.
This is LRH so it's not the same as what you're accustomed to ... just saying.
We also have members that hunts your neck of the woods (and other countries) and perhaps they will chime in as well.
Again, welcome! Cheers!
M Rosslee
Well-Known Member
Thank you and sure thing.
It's just shooting a half MOA group over the sticks isn't exactly realistic for 99% of the shooters out there... It's tough enough off the bench and the question was "Acceptable groups"...
I suppose it's about being realistic and knowing your own limits.
It's just shooting a half MOA group over the sticks isn't exactly realistic for 99% of the shooters out there... It's tough enough off the bench and the question was "Acceptable groups"...
I suppose it's about being realistic and knowing your own limits.
Yes, but the OP asked the LRH community, thus getting the LRH answer. Besides, he hails from Montana ... they don't call it Big Sky Country for nothing.
M Rosslee
Well-Known Member
Like our Kalahari guys..
Shooting tiny springbuck at distances exceeding 300m is no easy task as they're not static creatures by nature (very skittish and animate herd animals)...
Generally with lightning fast calibers though - .22-250 Remington Magnum, .220 Swift, .243 Ackley, .243Winchester , 6mm XC, 6mm Dasher and 260 Remington, 7mm Rem Mag ...
Shooting tiny springbuck at distances exceeding 300m is no easy task as they're not static creatures by nature (very skittish and animate herd animals)...
Generally with lightning fast calibers though - .22-250 Remington Magnum, .220 Swift, .243 Ackley, .243Winchester , 6mm XC, 6mm Dasher and 260 Remington, 7mm Rem Mag ...
