You can never be 100% certain...

[BrentM]

How big were those targets?

I shot elr targets and they were literally life size deer, elk, moose, bear. A hit was a hit. Plates were 36x36 and some were 40x40

 

[parshal]

Anywhere from life-size to quarter-size. Of course, nobody really knows what size a sasquatch or unicorn are so best guess on those.

 

[Idaho Lefty]

WHEN, my son and I start missing, the 10 and 11 Inch Dia. "Kill Zone" sized, Steel Plates, we KNOW that we have "found", our Max Ranges, using Field Positions on, Big Game !
And IT's, a lot closer than, most Hunters, think, due to WIND in, the REAL World of, the Mountains & Deserts !
Elk and Moose PAST 650 ish, are gonna,.. "Walk" !
And,.. even closer than that, when, the Winds, "Howling"

 

[Rflshootr]

I don't think that many people think about the trajectory of their bullet. Use a loading program with your bullet and velocity and look at how high the bullet has to go before it comes down to zero at 1000 yards. I'd wild guess that most are in the 20'+ from line of sight. Makes you wonder what the wind is doing 20 feet up as opposed to what it is doing at line of sight.

 

[BrentM]

I don't think that many people think about the trajectory of their bullet. Use a loading program with your bullet and velocity and look at how high the bullet has to go before it comes down to zero at 1000 yards. I'd wild guess that most are in the 20'+ from line of sight. Makes you wonder what the wind is doing 20 feet up as opposed to what it is doing at line of sight.

It's why mountain shooters look at prevailing wind. Often when shooting across ridges you'll be 1000 plus feet above the ground.

 

[dfanonymous]

I'm shooting NRL/PRS competition. The best indication of conditions is your last shot. In order to do that you must spot that shot. At least in NRL, all of the top shooters will say you must see your shots. Those top shooters are even able to see trace in their scope. I'd argue that if you're not spotting your hits/misses then you aren't going to be competitive.

I don't want to derail this thread any more than I unfortunately already have. I was bringing up the competition to show that having shot a lot of steel in the 900-1800 yard range in all sorts of conditions gives me the experience to understand that environmentals are not always easy to discern and shooting at an animal requires a little more pause.

So do I. I'm not talking out of my ***.

It's not derailing as this this thread is about wind and we are talking about wind.

So you're telling me that you are trying to be competitive…and you are dropping shots?

I don't know anyone or any team ever in the last 3 years of shooting in nationals that is cool with dropping shots to adjust for wind…

I don't mean to sound offensive, but a monkey can see where the miss was, an correct. What happens when you have a brushy back stop and can't see your miss? Personally, spotters are not a standard I'd follow in being competitive. God forbid they ever added movers to a stage..

 

[parshal]

No, I'm not talking about intentionally dropping shots in a competition. I'm also not talking about dedicated spotters. I'm talking about seeing a miss or hit in your scope and adjusting your next shot for center mass based on where the first hit. Yes, the targets with no backstop require you to see your trace which the top shooters are able to see.

I'm simply saying this. From shooting competition at steel in varying terrain and weather conditions I have determined, for me, that environmentals do unexpected things over long distance. In a competition you have the opportunity to spot your miss and take a follow up shot. On an animal that may very well be a bad hit and you don't get a follow up shot.

 

[dfanonymous]

…and I'm saying, I don't like to miss initially. In competition or in anything real life. Corrective fire is EASY.

You shouldn't either. You could be 10y from a __insert game animal__with a bow and make a bad shot in zero wind. It can always happen.

If one is to scurrd to make a shot…I would question that person as a hunter. There's a difference being a blatant idiot lobbing shots at a animal, and making a bad call you were 100% sure would work. Terminal ballistics aside.

Why are we here on LRH hunter if we don't want to be long range hunters? Wind is a part of shooting. For me, I worked hard to understand the varying conditions and terrain…so that it wouldn't be weird.

 

[BrentM]

…and I'm saying, I don't like to miss initially. In competition or in anything real life. Corrective fire is EASY.

You shouldn't either. You could be 10y from a __insert game animal__with a bow and make a bad shot in zero wind. It can always happen.

If one is to scurrd to make a shot…I would question that person as a hunter. There's a difference being a blatant idiot lobbing shots at a animal, and making a bad call you were 100% sure would work. Terminal ballistics aside.

Why are we here on LRH hunter if we don't want to be long range hunters? Wind is a part of shooting. For me, I worked hard to understand the varying conditions and terrain…so that it wouldn't be weird.

I think you two are saying similar things and both have valid points that are being lost in the context. Honestly I think if we were all hunting together our thoughts would be aligned. I think the spotter shot idea is valid from a what if perspective. For example, if you just can't seem to get that validation on your wind call you have choices: wing it, walk away, get closer, or spotter shot. Each of those has a unique set of circumstances in which we have to triage in the field and decide best course of action. I personally think all of the main members here would skip "wing it" and make a different choice. In the classes I help instruct I am a huge proponent of the students identifying their limits and ensuring winging it is not on the table of thought. I have a friend who is a FG officer who had a recent encounter with a LR hunter who took 29 shots at a deer at 1200 and there people on the hill side with the deer. He spoke at our last class and shared that story. I don't think that is any of us, hope so any way.

 

[dfanonymous]

I think you two are saying similar things and both have valid points that are being lost in the context. Honestly I think if we were all hunting together our thoughts would be aligned. I think the spotter shot idea is valid from a what if perspective. For example, if you just can't seem to get that validation on your wind call you have choices: wing it, walk away, get closer, or spotter shot. Each of those has a unique set of circumstances in which we have to triage in the field and decide best course of action. I personally think all of the main members here would skip "wing it" and make a different choice. In the classes I help instruct I am a huge proponent of the students identifying their limits and ensuring winging it is not on the table of thought. I have a friend who is a FG officer who had a recent encounter with a LR hunter who took 29 shots at a deer at 1200 and there people on the hill side with the deer. He spoke at our last class and shared that story. I don't think that is any of us, hope so any way.

Yeah, that's what I mean at lobbing shots. That's not cool. But, if you know in your heart you can make a single shot, and it ends up being a miss…that's it. You missed. You're done. Take notes..figure it out. If the animal is still there…get closer, finish the hunt.

We are agreeing that corrective fire is easy. We aren't agreeing that wind is a deciding factor to hunt.

People should want to be better imo, and I feel that some other opinions from various members over the years have an UNINTENTIONAL message that scares other shooters to thinking that shooting in wind is reserved for flat range shooting (civilian shooting range) only. It's not.

Being better is a choice.

 

[BrentM]

Yep, most people only shoot in fair weather and off a bench or prone. I practice in the conditions and places I hunt. Assume that is how we should all do it. Wind doesn't stop a hunt it only stops a choice to make a unreasonable shot. To know that you have to know your limits and conditions. Back to most people don't seem to follow practice procedures. I know I am lacking in elr skills and reading wind over multiple terrain features so I look for those opportunities to increase my skill set.

 

[LRNut]

Yeah, that's what I mean at lobbing shots. That's not cool. But, if you know in your heart you can make a single shot, and it ends up being a miss…that's it. You missed. You're done. Take notes..figure it out. If the animal is still there…get closer, finish the hunt.

We are agreeing that corrective fire is easy. We aren't agreeing that wind is a deciding factor to hunt.

People should want to be better imo, and I feel that some other opinions from various members over the years have an UNINTENTIONAL message that scares other shooters to thinking that shooting in wind is reserved for flat range shooting (civilian shooting range) only. It's not.

Being better is a choice.

True enough, but I would think most everyone on this thread who misses are going to miss because of a bad wind call, which 50% of the time means a gut shot (the other 50% perhaps grazing the brisket or missing). Compare that to taking a shot at a running deer...my guess is most people are going to cleanly miss a deer they kick up in the woods and have but a second or two to take a shot. Sure, they might gut shoot it, but more likely it is an air ball. Not sure if that makes sense, but I gotta go paint gongs.

 

[Hugnot]

All this shows why controlled 3 shot strings from full auto weapons are effective at extended ranges.