Why no love for the 40S&W?

[UplandFreak]

Man, seems like everywhere I look people are dogging on the 40 now. People are dumping them for 9mms. I have 2 40's and I love them. A glock 23 and 27. I shoot and carry them way more than my 9mms. I know they have a little more pop to them, but man they hit hard, you can tell the difference at the range. Police agencies are even going back to the 9. I have heard it's because a lot of them can't handle the recoil and don't shoot the 40 very well?

 

[dfanonymous]

The 40 has been being phased out for awhile now. It just took the pandemic for people to realize it as it's the only thing I ever see on the shelves anymore.

There's a few reasons. On paper, the 9mm today vs back in the 70/80/90s perform better then they did then. The turning point and the FBIs pet project to make the 40 sw was a direct result from the dade county shootout in 1986.

Moving ahead to today, there is better numbers on paper for 9mm, generic data related to physiology and a lot of police data/CCW data to justify 9's being viable again. Tactically the direction is now reducing margin of error in recoil management for fast follow up shots, and capacity combined obviously with technique and shot placement.

To be frank, the 40 in my opinion doesn't offer anything more than the 9mm or .45 acp does. It still just sits there in the middle of American favorites and like all handgun cartridges, they utterly all have the potential to suck from .380 to .45 acp equally in terms of lethality compared to a rifle.

 

[UplandFreak]

I don't feel like you give up much capacity to the 9 - maybe a round or two? All these advancements in bullet technology still apply to the 40 - seems like it is just more of a good thing if you are man enough to handle the recoil, which seems to me that is more about proper technique than anything else.

 

[Deputy819]

Police agencies are even going back to the 9. I have heard it's because a lot of them can't handle the recoil and don't shoot the 40 very well?

The office I work for isn't. Kentucky State Police did, however, citing that premium 9mm LE ammo was cheaper than premium .40 S&W ammo.

 

[Pulpwood]

There is nothing wrong with the 40s&w just a trend

 

[Pulpwood]

The 40s&w is just as good today as it was when everyone went to them just as the 9mm isn't any better today than when everyone left them. It's the gun makers trending to sale guns and ammo

 

[TheDeicide]

I wish more people would go back to the 9mm. My local shop has better than a skid of the stuff but no 40 at all. I can always get 9mm however. I do handload for the 40 though. I'm just lazy at times. I love my 40 and admittedly I bought it 20 years ago when 9mm meant having to get +P ammo.

 

[YZ-80]

I bought a Sig P226 Elite back in 2006 as a 40 S&W. I like it cause I also have a .357 Sig barrel for it. It's a tank. It goes in the nightstand every night. I just actually started to get some instruction and range time with it a few months ago and my shooting really improved. Does it suck? I don't know but I don't think I'd want to be on the business end of it (or a Mark II for that matter).

 

[Deputy819]

Yep, that's 'purdy'

 

[TheDeicide]

I bought a Sig P226 Elite back in 2006 as a 40 S&W. I like it cause I also have a .357 Sig barrel for it. It's a tank. It goes in the nightstand every night. I just actually started to get some instruction and range time with it a few months ago and my shooting really improved. Does it suck? I don't know but I don't think I'd want to be on the business end of it (or a Mark II for that matter).

Does the lazer affect your draw much? I have an SW40F and I can't change the grip to have a crimson trace. It's pretty basic with tritium sights. My only regret is I paid $65 each for the 3-15 round mags during the ban.

 

[MachV]

40 short and weak to a10mm guy. High preasure round that is harder on actions and less reliable than the 9 or 45acp.
For me its a pain in the *** round I can do without......get a few mixed in with other brass in the tumbler or jamming up the Dillons and youll understand.
A 40 and/or a Glock might be just the ticket if you only have one handgun and reload or buy ammo but I dont believe Im missing anyhing by not owning a 40 or Glock.

 

[sedancowboy]

The 40 S & W was the wrong solution to a problem that the FBI had with poor performing ammo and inadequate weapon choices. After the 1986 shootout in Miami the FBI realized they had been out gunned by the criminal element. They set out to remedy their situation with a series of tests. The test were between the 9mm Luger, the brand new 10MM and the 45 Auto. With 1886 current production ammo the 10 MM won hands down. This is a case when theory don't match reality.
The 10MM was a handful. The S & W 1076 was a huge pistol and not conductive to small hands shooting it well. It also had some issues with function that never got worked out.
The reality was that the 10MM was too much gun for the agents on the line so the FBI had it downloaded to a more manageable level. And so someone at Winchester and S&W said hey if you are going to download it they why don't we put it in a shorter case and shoot it in a 9mm luger frame size gun. So the 40 S&W was born. Now everyone was scrambling to chamber their 9mm frame to 40 S&W because the mighty FBI thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. Well hold on a minute the 9mms converted to 40 S&W with a much heavier bullet with more recoil and energy was not holding up so well. While all this was happening the Ammo makers were perfecting their ammo and making the venerable 9mm better and better. So here we are today where we have 9mm ammo that is as good as the 40 S&W ammo of yesteryear. Now the 40 S&W ammo has also made the same gains but the coffin is already full of nails. The fact is that there was never a need for the 40 S&W and reality caught up with everyone thinking that they had to shoot the exact gun the FBI was using. We are also seeing a surge in 10 MM sales almost every gun manufacture has a 10MM which is a great cartridge and that is why it won't be denied its proper place in history. It just works and it works well, it was not intended for a pocket gun but for a hunting sidearm it is hard to beat. The 40 S&W really don't fit anywhere it is too large for a small concealed weapon and too small for a hunting sidearm. Alas it is a great medium cartridge but nobody wants a medium anything. It will not completely die because of all the LE trade-ins on the market but it will never gain market share either.

 

[YZ-80]

Does the lazer affect your draw much? I have an SW40F and I can't change the grip to have a crimson trace. It's pretty basic with tritium sights. My only regret is I paid $65 each for the 3-15 round mags during the ban.

That's an old, antiquated Insight Technologies M6 on there. I only got it on there for the light. Doesn't affect my draw because in MD, I could never carry it anyway. But it sure lights up my big house at night and would blind any perp on the other end of it. For carry (on my own property) it's a CZ82 in a Confortac belly band holster. Not a heavy hitter by any stretch but it'll get somebody's attention (I hope).

 

[Buck Fever]

High performance hollow point ammo has been around for a long time.

The genesis of .40 was that the FBI did a study and 10mm came out on top but 10mm handguns were pretty rare, expensive, heavy, with recoil so when a lot of 9mm guns were reworked to .40 Slow&Weak, they were lighter, cheaper, had less recoil and common so lots of agencies adopted it.

These days the political situation has people wanting to equip their police forces with less gun instead of more because it's cheaper, they don't want police shootings and probably they think a police shooting with 9mm has less liability potential. I can't disagree too much because the hit ratios in police shootings are pathetic.

What I can disagree with is following that trend with my guns because I can handle 10mm. My 9's are backups and carry pieces and I'm experimenting with 357 Sig for a high velocity loading with slightly reduced recoil.