Why can’t we get good dies!

[brentc]

The OP is correct. A full length die is supposed to reduce the diameter of a case as well as set the shoulder back. Thats it's job. In most cases an off the shelf die will not reduce the diameter at the base above the extractor groove of a fired case from a saami minimum spec chamber, usually it will at the shoulder, often too much. Its a very well known issue among competitors and gunsmiths. Thats why we order resize reamers so we can make dies that actually work. The other option is increase the diameter of the chamber which is not ideal. With a die that works correctly, brass does not wear out. Its not supposed to be scrap in 5 firings. In Benchrest, 60-70k psi is normal, cases are full length sized every time, and you cant wear one out. I know of many that have reloaded cases over 100 times at high pressure. The key to long brass life is a well speced chamber, a full length die that works, and is used every time. I just bought a 300 PRC full length die for a wildcat Im going to do and the base of that die measures what the base of the chamber measures, in other words, guaranteed clickers. Ordered a resize reamer the next day. It is actually is big problem, and if more understood it and held the manufacturers accountable, we may get it fixed.

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

It still surprises me how many self proclaimed "experienced" shooters have never experienced extremely common reloading issues, such as clickers. Some of the responses in this thread are beyond ridiculous. Confusing clickers with misfires? WTH is this crap?

 

[nicholasjohn]

Thank God I now know what a "clicker" is. After four pages of reading, I was going to the doctor for a Penicillin shot, in case I got clickers.

Don't do that !!! Save the penicillin for something more serious. One guy who chimed in says that going deaf will take care of the clicking sound, and I'll bet he's right. We're all headed there, sooner or late. Even with ear protection, shooting is hard on our hearing, so it's just a matter of time before the clickers go away due to hearing loss.

I still don't know how the clicking hurts anything. I couldn't get a response to that question in a prior post. Maybe somebody out there knows ….....

 

[bigngreen]

Nobody I have ever known has cut a reamer to match a die. That makes zero sense. The problem is that the tolerance stack has gotten out of hand and a tight SAAMI chamber does not get sized enough by a loose die plain and simple. I know and I am sure Ryan does too that we can get custom dies. That still does not answer the why? Why don't they just make dies that will actually size SAAMI Min chambers. This is all repeat of what Ryan said.

I've actually done exactly that with a couple reamers after using a sammi reamer and running a chambering I found where Redding S dies were sizing to and then spec'ed a new reamer to match and I've had zero issues since with those chamberings. You could make a mess doing that also BUT in these cases a thou hear or there took something that I'd get a call on to zero calls!

 

[cowboy]

I still don't know how the clicking hurts anything. I couldn't get a response to that question in a prior post. Maybe somebody out there knows ….....

With each additional time you reload, the "clicker" will become more pronounced and initial extraction of fired brass will become more difficult until you almost have to pound the bolt open. All this happens and you still have not exceeded excessive pressure. So you have a choice to get new brass or solve the problem.

 

[FURMAN]

I've actually done exactly that with a couple reamers after using a sammi reamer and running a chambering I found where Redding S dies were sizing to and then spec'ed a new reamer to match and I've had zero issues since with those chamberings. You could make a mess doing that also BUT in these cases a thou hear or there took something that I'd get a call on to zero calls!

This actually makes sense to me. Especially with some of the issue we are seeing.

 

[nicholasjohn]

With each additional time you reload, the "clicker" will become more pronounced and initial extraction of fired brass will become more difficult until you almost have to pound the bolt open. All this happens and you still have not exceeded excessive pressure. So you have a choice to get new brass or solve the problem.

So it seems the click that is heard is from lifting the bolt very hard to extract the case, and it clicks when it hits against its stop. I can see how eventually I would be so hard to lift the bolt that you would have to use some kind of leverage or knock it open with a wooden mallet - definitely not good. It's not that the click itself is a problem, just that the condition causing it can get out of hand when it reaches extremes. Thanks.

 

[Rhovee]

Another thing to note from experience. Once you have noticed the click on the top of bolt, it's very hard to resize that brass because its hardened. When i got a correct die that would work, i needed to start with new brass and issue went away. This has made me inspect and verify that new dies do size the web of the brass.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

That is also why I recommend FL sizing every time. Neck sizing, then FL sizing only when needed will lead to the same issue Rhovee mentioned. Its very hard to bring brass back once it gets too big. I have made push through dies to do just that, but I prefer to avoid the problem. A proper fit will allow you to reload a case almost an unlimited number of times with the same fit in the chamber every time. Consistency and longevity is what a correctly sized full length die gives you. Wearing out brass, case head separation, extraction problems, tight bolt issues, ext. are not normal things to happen.

 

[highdrum]

I'm having small base dies made for my 6.5x284, 6.5 prc, rum/nosler/wsm cases, and my 300 norma improved. As I've started getting clickers in several rifles. These boys who've reloaded for decades and never had the problem havent used loads to push performance in good brass with case heads to handle the added pressure. I only chamber rifles that have peterson, adg, or lapua brass to load, this way I know brass will handle higher pressure.

 

[Bob Wright]

I'm a few grains under max pressure (confirmed in ladder testing) and have started to see an easy bolt lift, but difficult rearward extraction.
280AI, Nosler brass, Redding FL Bushing dies.
Thinking I need to run this past the Smith first, then if needed, get a custom die.
Frustrating.

 

[FEENIX]

This thread turned to junk rather quickly...

This thread should be a lot more peaceful going forward now.

@Len Backus, thank you, Sir!

V/R
Ed

 

[Elk Hunter 338]

I'm having small base dies made for my 6.5x284, 6.5 prc, rum/nosler/wsm cases, and my 300 norma improved. As I've started getting clickers in several rifles. These boys who've reloaded for decades and never had the problem havent used loads to push performance in good brass with case heads to handle the added pressure. I only chamber rifles that have peterson, adg, or lapua brass to load, this way I know brass will handle higher pressure.

correct sir.. most are running some sort of factory rifle probably or a custom with sloppy chamber which is fine but don't put your two cents in if you have absolutely have no idea what we are even talking about! And then keep arguing with the people that actually are making sense!!!

one of them that blew my mind was this post

""""AND, "clickers" are not caused by big webs, they are caused by excessive head space from a two deep chamber OR, belt too thin (belted), rim too thin (rimmed), shoulder pushed back. (rimless)

This is all reloading 101 stuff ! """""

what the actual %$#^.... OHHHH your gonna get a lot more than a "clicker" with to much head space!!
And what the HECK is a TWO deep chamber ???

 

[BountyHunter]

I know it's a pain and much more expensive but maybe try buying sizer blank and having you smith cut them with you chamber reamer right after your chamber?

That will not work and bad info! You must use a resize reamer which is smaller in order to get any sizing. A chamber reamer is totally useless to make a resize die.

 

[Deleted member 103481]

That will not work and bad info! You must use a resize reamer which is smaller in order to get any sizing. A chamber reamer is totally useless to make a resize die.

I was made aware of that already in this thread and responded. I will edit my original comment so no one loses money with my bad info, I had been thinking about a seater die