Why Berger?

[Bill Norton]

Hi All,
I don't post a lot but I read a lot here. I thought this is the perfect place to ask something I have wondered for a long time. Please school me on why Berger is so popular? I know they are crazy accurate with great B.C's but If I am correct they are rapid expansion and I was thinking if you get a bad shot (shoulder) you wouldn't get penetration especially at longer distances.
I use the following bullets and please feel free to critique or compare what I typically shoot (whitetail & some mule deer).
Blaser R8 30/06: 150gr Barnes TSX
Kimber 270wsm: 130gr Swift Scirocco

Thanks!

 

[DJ Fergus]

Hey Bill, glad you posted. Berger's used to be controversial here on this site several years ago and are now widely accepted for the most part for long range hunting. They expand rapidly, and at long distance that can work out really well when the bullet has slowed down and she'd a bit of energy. When they are heavy for caliber, I kinda look at them like an upscaled varmit bullet, for huge varmits. Long range on game shots are where they have gained popularity vs some of the traditional bullets may not expand enough at long distance. And there are people who will still debate this topic. I do still believe that a shoulder shot that ends up dead on the ball socket can be a toss up with a rapid expanding bullet if the bullet is not of enough caliber size & heavy enough grain weight. There are plenty of people who will counter that statement that I just made, nevertheless my mind is made up. I will believe what I have saw and they can believe what they would like. I won't debate it. My bullets of choice for long range are Eldm, a-tip & Berger. I have tree stand rifles for shots within 200 yards that shoot Speer btsp, Barnes ttsx, federal fusions & core lokts.

 

[KurtB]

Bill, It all depends on how you run them I think. Have seen 140 vld in 6.5 mm kill all manner of big game. I start them anywhere from 2600 to 2950 fps and they will penetrate a bull elk shoulder and wreck lungs or heart. Have killed black bear, whitetails, mule deer, antelope, mountain goat, and son has used on elk. In all cases either no steps or max of 10 steps, and very minimal meat damage. You should try some sometime, they are quite effective.

 

[Bill Norton]

Hey Bill, glad you posted. Berger's used to be controversial here on this site several years ago and are now widely accepted for the most part for long range hunting. They expand rapidly, and at long distance that can work out really well when the bullet has slowed down and she'd a bit of energy. When they are heavy for caliber, I kinda look at them like an upscaled varmit bullet, for huge varmits. Long range on game shots are where they have gained popularity vs some of the traditional bullets may not expand enough at long distance. And there are people who will still debate this topic. I do still believe that a shoulder shot that ends up dead on the ball socket can be a toss up with a rapid expanding bullet if the bullet is not of enough caliber size & heavy enough grain weight. There are plenty of people who will counter that statement that I just made, nevertheless my mind is made up. I will believe what I have saw and they can believe what they would like. I won't debate it. My bullets of choice for long range are Eldm, a-tip & Berger. I have tree stand rifles for shots within 200 yards that shoot Speer btsp, Barnes ttsx, federal fusions & core lokts.

Very informative. Thank you!

 

[bigngreen]

They are popular first because they are insanely lethal, top notch accuracy along with BC especially when using heavy for cal.
When we started the shift to Berger's it was startling how lethal they were and how good they were on meat often with very little on side damage and little blood shot. The ballistics were a big cherry on top for us!

 

[dok7mm]

One big plus for the Berger's is the consistency of each lot # and in general across that entire type. That includes BTO, OAL , BS, and circumference.

Last week I sorted and weighed 1 K of the .264 156 gr bullets just to have something to do amid the lockdown.
Using a sorting stand with dial indicator & Tubb steel comparator.

Measuring BTO, I ended up with 3 batches, .000", -.001" and +.001" with not a single outlier. I also weighed 10 from each box and all were +/- .1 gr. so I didn't sort the whole 1K by weight.

This as good as it gets. I shoot Berger's mostly, because I've sorted many lots of Hornady and Nosler that show lack of consistency, the early ELD-Xs being the worst.

 

[DJ Fergus]

One big plus for the Berger's is the consistency of each lot # and in general across that entire type. That includes BTO, OAL , BS, and circumference.

Last week I sorted and weighed 1 K of the .264 156 gr bullets just to have something to do amid the lockdown.
Using a sorting stand with dial indicator & Tubb steel comparator.

Measuring BTO, I ended up with 3 batches, .000", -.001" and +.001" with not a single outlier. I also weighed 10 from each box and all were +/- .1 gr. so I didn't sort the whole 1K by weight.

This as good as it gets. I shoot Berger's mostly, because I've sorted many lots of Hornady and Nosler that show lack of consistency, the early ELD-Xs being the worst.

The eldx may or may not be better now, I don't know cause I don't use them. I also tried them early on and was not impressed.

 

[Westernhuntr]

If you don't consider lead shrapnel blown everywhere damage, then yeah it does very little damage to meat

 

[sedancowboy]

I have stopped sorting Berger's because there is no need. I have weigh sorted all of the major brands Nosler ABLR, Hornady A-Tip and Sierra. None are even close to the Bergers. Hornady advertises their A-Tips as coming off the press sequentially but when weighed they are not as consistent as Bergers even lot to lot. If you want to hit stuff shoot Berger's.

 

[jasonco]

I went through a box of the 6.5mm 156 EOL, picked up another, and they were like, they were from the same lot.

 

[bigngreen]

If you don't consider lead shrapnel blown everywhere damage, then yeah it does very little damage to meat

Huh, never had that problem with them, maybe I keep missing the meat!!
Used to cut wild game out of college, cut way north of 2000 elk alone and don't put up with bullets that makes more work for me behind the trigger or cutting them on the rail and I just keep coming back to the ol Berger!

 

[Korhil78]

I have tried ELDX, Barnes, edge TLR, nosler longrange accubonds, hammer bullets and Berger's this past year to try to get a different longrange bullet for my rifles. The only ones that I thought were better than Berger's in terminal performance was the Hammer bullets and the Edge TLRs. In consistency of BTO and weight, Berger's and Hammer bullets are comparable. The Edge TLR was not consistent in measurements at all and it showed at longer ranges. If Federal would get their act together and pump out consistent bullets in the Edge TLR, they would seriously do some damage in the bullet market.

After all of this testing and shooting, I went back to Berger's.

 

[cohunt]

I think you answered your own question for yourself-- you said the are "crazy accurate with great BC's" --- put a bullet in the right spot and it will kill--- just know what style of bullet construction you have and it will dictate how/where you can shoot

If a bullet is not accurate and you can't put it where you want to then how is it going to work? I shoot lots of different bullet manufactures, but my first criteria is always to find the most accurate load I can that my rifle likes -- heck, you don't even need an expanding bullet depending on the game you are hunting-- lots of "dangerous game" hunters use non-expanding bullets, the majority use expanding bullets for NA big game, and varmint hunters often use "explosively expanding" bullets -- right tool for the job, know the limitations of your tools-- a pipe wrench can be used for a hammer in a pinch, but a hammer wont loosen a pipe fitting connection.

 

[Backcountry sports]

Hi All,
I don't post a lot but I read a lot here. I thought this is the perfect place to ask something I have wondered for a long time. Please school me on why Berger is so popular? I know they are crazy accurate with great B.C's but If I am correct they are rapid expansion and I was thinking if you get a bad shot (shoulder) you wouldn't get penetration especially at longer distances.
I use the following bullets and please feel free to critique or compare what I typically shoot (whitetail & some mule deer).
Blaser R8 30/06: 150gr Barnes TSX
Kimber 270wsm: 130gr Swift Scirocco

Thanks!

I only use Berger 168 on my 7mm 14 high shoulder shots drt every time I use Berger on my 270wsm and 300wsm and 243 with excellent results