What second rifle for western hunting?

[Rick Richard]

How about everyone chill and get back on subject. Don't turn this good question into a "dumpster fire".

So, my choice for out west hunting since I do this a bit and being from the east is 6.5 something for those deer/antelope size animals and 30 or even better 338 for those BIG boys….like bull elk, moose and where the Grizz roam.

I have used smaller cartridges like the 6.5 SAUM and 270 in the past and have never been really impressed with the punch or lack of on the bigger game. So, that is why I recommend the 30 and above.

 

[Lee7588]

What is your malfunction? First you can't read the first sentence of my post and get mad when I constantly ignored you, now you're accusing me of breaking the law because you don't know *** you're talking about and reading comprehension got the best of you again. Go back and check the part were I stated CULLING DEER. You can shoot them with whatever you want and whenever you want with crop damage tags in most states including VA.

Thank you for contributing nothing positive and welcome to my ignore list.

Lol, I'm trying to help you. You have admitted in a forum on the web to shooting deer with an undersized caliber. Poachers offen tell the wardens they were just culling deer. But I guess like what has been said before you know everything.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I know that elk is on your list. How far are you willing and able to shoot an elk? This will help you decide on caliber/chambering/load set-up.

My go-to chambering from antelope to elk size game to 1KY is the .300 WM (with 215 Berger), even though my .30 LARA (230/245) has more OOMP. Beyond the 1KY, I will transition to my .338 Thor (250/300 Berger).

First paragraph of my original post.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

How about everyone chill and get back on subject. Don't turn this good question into a "dumpster fire".

So, my choice for out west hunting since I do this a bit and being from the east is 6.5 something for those deer/antelope size animals and 30 or even better 338 for those BIG boys….like bull elk, moose and where the Grizz roam.

I have used smaller cartridges like the 6.5 SAUM and 270 in the past and have never been really impressed with the punch or lack of on the bigger game. So, that is why I recommend the 30 and above.

I don't want a 30 cal magnum, I've said multiple times that I've had them and don't shoot them well. I'm not going to take a rifle I don't shoot well on a hunt and wound an animal, I'd take my chances with a well placed shot from something most would considering under gunned first. 7mm PRC or RM are the biggest thing I'm interested it. I've had a couple 7RM's in lighter rifles (9lbs-10lbs) and shot them well and that's the most I'm comfortable with.

 

[Rick Richard]

I don't want a 30 cal magnum, I've said multiple times that I've had them and don't shoot them well. I'm not going to take a rifle I don't shoot well on a hunt and wound an animal, I'd take my chances with a well placed shot from something most would considering under gunned first. 7mm PRC or RM are the biggest thing I'm interested it. I've had a couple 7RM's in lighter rifles (9lbs-10lbs) and shot them well and that's the most I'm comfortable with.

I shoot mine with brakes and at the weight you listed….very little recoil and very accurate. I don't understand why folks can't shoot them well if they take the appropriate precautions to reduce recoil and whatever else that effects their shooting of them.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I shoot mine with brakes and at the weight you listed….very little recoil and very accurate. I don't understand why folks can't shoot them well if they take the appropriate precautions to reduce recoil and whatever else that effects their shooting of them.

Brakes are a personal preference and plenty of people don't like them. That was one of my questions in the original post too and several people said no brakes.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I've decided to go with a PH2 in 7mm Rem Mag.

I did a lot of research last night on the factory PRC ammo on forums and reviews and there's a ton of people not getting anywhere near the box velocity with the 7PRC stuff. Even early lots that were having pressure signs people are getting well under stated velocity. Some people with recent lots are reporting under 2700FPS. I've gotten 2800fps with 185 Juggernauts in 308's LOL. Regardless even estimating it at a median of 2800fps with the 175gr ELDX which is over what a lot of people are reporting it makes the external ballistics not so great. The 7mm Rem Mag 162gr ELDX load actually ends up have very similar down range performance and there's a lot more ammo options for it like the Barnes LRX and Federal with Berger hybrid hunters both of which I've used in other chamberings with great results.

I can always send it back to Seekins and get a 7PRC barrel for it in the 22" element or 26" PH2 for $550. Or even get a 300WM or 300PRC barrel if the 7RM seems mild.

Thanks to those who contributed positively.

 

[FEENIX]

First paragraph of my original post.

600 yards is where I'm very comfortable placing a first round hit in all but the worst field conditions, in perfect conditions I might extend that to 800 yards.

Great 600Y on elk it is. Good luck with your 7MM RM. People here are genuinely trying to help. I agree with others; it appears you do not need any of our help.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Great 600Y it is. Good luck with your 7MM RM. People here are genuinely trying to help. I agree with others; it appears you do not need any of our help.

Several people have helped and given me great advice which is part of why I landed on my decision of the 7RM when I had been leaning 7PRC or getting a second 6.5CM and I appreciate that. When people can't be bothered to read my original post and not even pay attention long enough to get through the first paragraph or even the first sentence then I'm not sure how helpful any of their input actually is. Especially those still throwing out 300 and 338 magnums after I stated in my original post and multiple follow ups that they're above my comfort threshold and out of the question.

 

[Mountain Sloth]

You do realize that 6.5CM loads have better ballistics and retained velocity and energy than most 270 loads once you're beyond a couple hundred yards, right? You call a 6.5CM a deer rifle yet a bullet that's .013" larger in diameter is magically an elk rifle even though is ballistically inferior beyond short range.

I have a hard time taking advice from people with ideology like this because it lacks logic and reason. I would not hesitate to shoot an elk out to 600 yards with my 6.5CM. A **** load of them have been killed with .224" and .243" bullets and there's pages of pictures that show it. A lot of elk have also been wounded with magnums by people that can't shoot, and a bunch of people have come hear telling me to buy 30 cal magnums that I've stated are over what I can comfortably shoot in a hunting weight rifle.

I started deer hunting in VA in an area with pretty big deer and everybody said I needed a magnum because they think deer are invincible. I bought a 300RUM for my first deer rifle which knocked the **** out of me and blew deer all to hell, especially close range ones that the bullets splashed on from the high impact velocities. I shot a doe that wasn't very big 5 times at about 30 yards once and it just blew massive chunks out of her. Then I started culling deer on bean fields and realized how easy they actually are to kill. One day I was out hunting groundhogs with my LVSF 223 with Winchester 45gr HP varmint bullets and some deer came out a little over 300 yards. I shot one and it dropped. The others ran out to almost 400 yards and stopped. I shot another one and it dropped. After that I started hunting during season with a 243 because it's the smallest thing that was legal that I could buy ammo factory ammo for.

When I go up to VA to hunt next season I'm going to take my 6ARC, not my 6.5CM "deer rifle".

you asked for advice and you got it... the fact that you want to make your dream happen but cherry pick the answers that done fit is fine. yeah a 6.5cm kills elk, you should use that. I hope it works out for you. Giving you real world advice from a western hunters perspective. Your tag, your gun, ultimately your money man. I'm gonna leave it here with the words I stated earlier on in this circus "bring the right tool for the job".

PS your original post said something about getting a 7mm rm or 300 win barrel so if you can't shoot those sized magnums I wouldn't consider getting them... thats my last two cents.

"4. PH2 with a second barrel. If I went this route I'd probably buy it in 7RM or 300WM just to have another option (300WM makes more since in this scenario in my mind) and then have Seekins make me a second barrel in a 20" 7PRC configuration to run suppressed. I could also just get it in 7PRC like option 3 and also add a 20" barrel for hunting suppressed and consolidate ammo. I wouldn't bring both barrels with me, wrench, and barrel vise out west with me most likely to take advantage of having a third caliber, but I suppose I could if I wanted to as long as I wasn't flying."

 

[FEENIX]

Several people have helped and given me great advice which is part of why I landed on my decision of the 7RM when I had been leaning 7PRC or getting a second 6.5CM and I appreciate that. When people can't be bothered to read my original post and not even pay attention long enough to get through the first paragraph or even the first sentence then I'm not sure how helpful any of their input actually is. Especially those still throwing out 300 and 338 magnums after I stated in my original post and multiple follow ups that they're above my comfort threshold and out of the question.

Your original post has so many uncertainties, and people are trying to get verification, but you got defensive/not receptive. I gave up on my 7MM RM and 7MM STW. Again, good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[dogz]

I've decided to go with a PH2 in 7mm Rem Mag.

I did a lot of research last night on the factory PRC ammo on forums and reviews and there's a ton of people not getting anywhere near the box velocity with the 7PRC stuff. Even early lots that were having pressure signs people are getting well under stated velocity. Some people with recent lots are reporting under 2700FPS. I've gotten 2800fps with 185 Juggernauts in 308's LOL. Regardless even estimating it at a median of 2800fps with the 175gr ELDX which is over what a lot of people are reporting it makes the external ballistics not so great. The 7mm Rem Mag 162gr ELDX load actually ends up have very similar down range performance and there's a lot more ammo options for it like the Barnes LRX and Federal with Berger hybrid hunters both of which I've used in other chamberings with great results.

I can always send it back to Seekins and get a 7PRC barrel for it in the 22" element or 26" PH2 for $550. Or even get a 300WM or 300PRC barrel if the 7RM seems mild.

Thanks to those who contributed positively.

Excellent choice! I've used various Big 7's to take a boat load of elk. They're user friendly (without being overly heavy and or a Brake) friendly and incredibly capable!

I've been around elk taken with everything from a 22/250 to a 416 Rigby. Took a lot and saw a lot taken with a 340 Wby (I shot out 2 barrels) and for me the Big 7's are it. My choice is a sentimental one called the 7 Mashburn Super.

Best of luck to ya in your hunts, get some good optics on them and practice as much as you can from field positions. Most importantly get in the best shape of your life, for the most part nothing easy about elk hunting, especially if you're in the Rockies and doing it on your own.

 

[Hudge76]

I would go with a 300 or 7 mag of some sort. When I lived in MT, I did the majority of my hunting with a .280 Rem or .270 WSM. I live in AK now, and I've used my .300 WM and .300 WSM the most. I have a .338 WM as well, but it is only used for bear hunting. I think I've used it once for moose, but I've yet to get a moose. The .300 WM and even .270 WSM have done great on caribou. I do not feel under gunned in anyway.

 

[GAWriter]

I'm putting together a two rifle system for general western big game hunting. I know it can be done with one and could be done with what I already have, but I want to bring two rifles with me and none of my others would be well suited for it. Factory ammo availability is a must, but it being somewhat limited (7PRC for example) doesn't bother me too much since I have a rifle in 6.5CM that would work for everything in a pinch. I don't plan to or desire to harvest game at 1000+ yards, 600 yards is where I'm very comfortable placing a first round hit in all but the worst field conditions, in perfect conditions I might extend that to 800 yards.

I've got a Seekins PH2 NRL in 6.5 CM already. It's just a PH2 with an extra sling stud and MLOK section in the forend and a TT Diamond trigger. I put a Hawkins tank brake on it thats not too concussive to help with positional shooting and spotting and don't plan on running a suppressor due to the 24" barrel but I can easily run my TBAC Ultra 7 if I wanted or pull the brake and run plain muzzle. I'll use this for NRL Hunter matches, long range shooting (I have other target rifles as well), and medium game hunting. It weighs a hair over 9lbs with optic and mag (no bipod) and right at 10lbs with bipod.

For the second rifle I think I'd like to still stick to a Seekins. I'm very happy with all of mine and I really like the stock on the PH2 and everything about it. I don't know if I want to run my suppressor on one or not, if I do I don't want a 24-26" barrel though. Beyond that I'm not sure what to get I'm going back and forth between a PH2 and an Element and also the chambering.

So I'm considering the following options, in no particular order of preference:

1. Element in 6.5 CM and run my TBAC ultra 7 for about a +1.5" length penalty over my PH2 NRL with brake or +3.5" penalty over plain muzzle. It would weigh about the same (probably a hair less overall) and be suppressed, use the same ammo, and get me a backup rifle. I could also run it without the can or a brake for a more compact and lighter rifle for mountain and timber hunting. The downside is it wouldn't add any practical capabilities to my two rifle system otherwise, but I'm not sure I need something with more downrange performance or a bigger bullet. With two 6.5CM's I'd probably cut my shots off at 600 yards though since that would give me about a +200FPS threshold over the minimum expansion velocities of the 143gr ELDX or 127gr LRX bullets I'd run.

2. Element in 7PRC. I would shoot this suppressed for hunting or with a brake. Where it would end up weight wise would probably be a little over my comfort threshold for recoil with plain muzzle so that wouldn't happen. I'd probably shoot it at the range less because of the recoil and barrel profile, but I'd shoot it enough and I've got my PH2 for that anyway.

3. PH2 in 7PRC (also considering 7RM) and leave it as is. At 7.2lbs bare it's heavy enough I'd be comfortable shooting it a bit without a brake in either PRC or RM and the 26" barrel would be the same length as my 6.5 with the brake which I don't consider unwieldy. I've hunting in VA in both the woods and fields since I was a kid and used a 26" barrel rifle more than anything else for big game although I did hunt quite a bit with shorter barrels both suppressed and not. For most of my shooting with this option I'd probably get another Hawkins brake for it. I like that this could double as a ELR range toy as well since I don't have one currently, but that's not a top priority, it would just be a plus to this option.

4. PH2 with a second barrel. If I went this route I'd probably buy it in 7RM or 300WM just to have another option (300WM makes more since in this scenario in my mind) and then have Seekins make me a second barrel in a 20" 7PRC configuration to run suppressed. I could also just get it in 7PRC like option 3 and also add a 20" barrel for hunting suppressed and consolidate ammo. I wouldn't bring both barrels with me, wrench, and barrel vise out west with me most likely to take advantage of having a third caliber, but I suppose I could if I wanted to as long as I wasn't flying.

5. Other? I've considered getting a LA origin and putting a 7PRC or something (or multiple barrels) together on a MDT HNT26 but I already know it's not going to really do anything that another Seekins won't other than cost more. I've also considered other factory rifles but keep coming back to the Seekins. I've also considered just getting a classic Remington BDL in 308 or 30-06 since it would be perfectly adequate too and I think they look nice. I'd probably use it more as a high country and woods rifle though and limit my shots to 500 yards or so since velocity would be lower for expansion with those with any of the factory ammo I'd run.

I haven't hunted out west beyond coyotes and prairie dogs. I know some put high priority on weight when hunting in high country which I may do (I have no idea what terrain I'll be hunting), but I don't shoot extremely light rifles well and would rather carry an extra pound to have a more stable shootable rifle. 8.5lbs is about as light as I'd like to possibly go and that's about where an element would end up kitted out. So I don't want a lighter rifle than that. I also don't know how much of a PITA it would be hunting out west with a braked rifle but on the east coast things often happen quick and at close range and getting ear pro in isn't an option a lot of the time beyond stand hunting. A lot of people seem to hunt with brakes though and it's becoming more and more common so I guess it's not that big of an issue. I like that game doesn't tend to spook as much with a suppressor and I've killed multiple deer before because of that but I just don't know how much of an advantage that would really be unless I'm hunting along side someone else that also had a tag and multiple animals presented themselves. That might also be stupid to have two animals down if they were somewhere that they needed to be packed out.

So for those who do a lot of western hunting, what would you do and why? How important is having something more than 6.5CM vs having two rifles that use the same ammo and almost shoot the same dope. How important is suppressed vs braked vs plain muzzle. How important is having an inch or few more or less on the muzzle and a half pound or so weight?

Look into Seekins' new SLAM rifle. I played with it at SHOT Show and it is pretty awesome. I've known about it and have been waiting for it's public release for a while now. If it were me, I would purchase through their custom shop so that I could get a carbon fiber wrapped barrel, simply because that is my preference. I've had the best luck with CF barrels and will not shy away from the added price anymore.

Also, no matter what direction you go, I would recommend choosing a large magnum caliber ranging from 7 PRC to 300 RUM. This is simply to give you the option of a heavy hitter for larger game, like elk. I'm a western guy and my personal two-rifle setup is a 6.5 PRC and 338 EDGE. one mainly for mule deer and the other for elk. I've shot and guided many who have shot elk with 6mms, 6.5s, 7mms, etc... and NOTHING puts an elk on the ground like a magnum 30 cal, which is also WAY outperformed by a 338 (empirically speaking). I don't care if you shoot bonded bullets out of a 6.5 CM, you still will never see an elk hit ground the way they do when a 300 grain 338 cal bullet hits them. which is good, because dragging an elk out of a creek bottom or thicket that ran there to die after the shot is... not fun.