6.5 SAUM - Was it a wise choice for Western hunting?

[cjl2010]

I've got bull elk with big guns and had them basically flip me of and start walking away dead on their feet, I've had the hump up and start coughing blood and flop over standing in the same spot I hit them with a 223.

Watched a bull take 6 180 ballistic tips from a 300 rum last year. Saw a 243 absolutely take the legs out of another bull. Spend more time elk hunting and less time wondering if your tool is big enough.

 

[Todd Gansel]

Wow, I have to say you are way over thinking this. The 6.5 SAUM is an incredible cartridge. The 6.5 bullet itself is incredible. Don't just look at BCs but SDs. 30 cals don't catch up with it until they hit about 200gr. My go to for anything here in Montana is my 264 Win Mag. Just learn to shoot the SAUM and be able to hit what your aiming at. I use as a general rule of thumb the 1000 ft lb rule. Do you ballistics and when the bullet energy drops below 1000 ft lbs that is your max distance on big game. Sure there can be exceptions but stick to it. I do not like to chase wounded animals never have either. But your notion that the 6.5 SAUM is not enough is absurd.

 

[.300 Dakota]

There are always 50 - 100 answers to any given topic before the thread title and my eyes meet at the inbox. However, I will offer both concurring and dissenting opinions based on experience.

1) Your cartridge choice will be one of the most inherently accurate ever designed with that kind of case capacity.

2) A 6.5x285 Norma with a 140 grain Berger hunting bullet drops 7x7 elk at 450 yards like nobody's business. With more power in your cartridge than that, you're fine for North America's toughest deer species.

3] DO NOT use the Accubond Long Range for elk or moose. Doesn't matter as much for mule deer or antelope. You won't generate enough velocity to actually blow it up, even at close range. However, Accubonds are SOFT! They mushroom quite readily. I've only had ONE that's ever exited a whitetail (and it ran over 100 yards). That's from both the 7mm and 300 SAUMs. Another deer (larger) shot with the same bullet that exited the first deer, lodged under the skin. What I'm saying is that if you hit a 700 - 1200lb animal in the boiler room with that Accubond, it's going to run til all the oil leaks out and you won't have a good blood trail.

4) My selection of bullet choice for elk or moose anywhere with a 6.5 anything is the 160 grain Woodleigh Weldcore. That bullet is stupid accurate in every 6.5 I've loaded it in, and has a ballistic coefficient of .508, which is enough for you to get it to the farthest destination you ought to be hunting with that cartridge because of energy limitations...and then some. You will have a stupid accurate bullet from a stupid accurate gun, and with a stupid accurate shooter, you can get that big, long torpedo all the way through the boiler room. You don't hear too many people talk about them because they're a little tough to find. If you ever try this combination, you won't switch. And you're welcome! The Norma 156gr is good, too, but not as accurate as a Weldcore! 1:8 is perfect!I did bad things to big boar with these in a Creedmoor. I shutter to think at what they'd do in a SAUM.

5) Your 6.5 SAUM is a smidge more powerful than a PRC, but short of a 264 Win Mag. It is an inherently accurate round, but beware of jams in push-feed actions during rapid cycling under duress. The shoulder angle is very sharp. Either clow down and take your time, use it in a CRF (too late for op), and above all else, make your 1st shot count!

 

[.300 Dakota]

Anybody remember the Winchester 264. Big game rifle

You mean the one in the 60s with 1:10 twist? Nope. Not that old. However, Winchester, Remington, Montana, Cooper, and some private gunsmiths I know make lots of .264 Win Mags, including my smith, who could have built himself anything he wanted. Manne=s stock, Bartlein 26" barrel, Vais brake, and Defiance action with Jewell trigger, and with 1:8 twist, he's golden to 3/4 mile given the huge NF on top.

 

[Kimber7man]

5) Your 6.5 SAUM is a smidge more powerful than a PRC, but short of a 264 Win Mag. It is an inherently accurate round, but beware of jams in push-feed actions during rapid cycling under duress. The shoulder angle is very sharp. Either clow down and take your time, use it in a CRF (too late for op), and above all else, make your 1st shot count!

So if I read correctly, the 30 degree shoulder angle of the SAUM and PRC is that much sharper than the 25 degree shoulder of the 264 Win Mag and causes problems?

 

[Braunschweiger]

There are always 50 - 100 answers to any given topic before the thread title and my eyes meet at the inbox. However, I will offer both concurring and dissenting opinions based on experience.

1) Your cartridge choice will be one of the most inherently accurate ever designed with that kind of case capacity.

2) A 6.5x285 Norma with a 140 grain Berger hunting bullet drops 7x7 elk at 450 yards like nobody's business. With more power in your cartridge than that, you're fine for North America's toughest deer species.

3] DO NOT use the Accubond Long Range for elk or moose. Doesn't matter as much for mule deer or antelope. You won't generate enough velocity to actually blow it up, even at close range. However, Accubonds are SOFT! They mushroom quite readily. I've only had ONE that's ever exited a whitetail (and it ran over 100 yards). That's from both the 7mm and 300 SAUMs. Another deer (larger) shot with the same bullet that exited the first deer, lodged under the skin. What I'm saying is that if you hit a 700 - 1200lb animal in the boiler room with that Accubond, it's going to run til all the oil leaks out and you won't have a good blood trail.

4) My selection of bullet choice for elk or moose anywhere with a 6.5 anything is the 160 grain Woodleigh Weldcore. That bullet is stupid accurate in every 6.5 I've loaded it in, and has a ballistic coefficient of .508, which is enough for you to get it to the farthest destination you ought to be hunting with that cartridge because of energy limitations...and then some. You will have a stupid accurate bullet from a stupid accurate gun, and with a stupid accurate shooter, you can get that big, long torpedo all the way through the boiler room. You don't hear too many people talk about them because they're a little tough to find. If you ever try this combination, you won't switch. And you're welcome! The Norma 156gr is good, too, but not as accurate as a Weldcore! 1:8 is perfect!I did bad things to big boar with these in a Creedmoor. I shutter to think at what they'd do in a SAUM.

5) Your 6.5 SAUM is a smidge more powerful than a PRC, but short of a 264 Win Mag. It is an inherently accurate round, but beware of jams in push-feed actions during rapid cycling under duress. The shoulder angle is very sharp. Either clow down and take your time, use it in a CRF (too late for op), and above all else, make your 1st shot count!

I'm gonna check out the Woodleighs! Thanks for all the info!

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...-160-grain-weldcore-protected-point-box-of-50

 

[D.Camilleri]

I will join in just for fun. I have killed a lot of deer,elk and antelope over the last years. The shots that stick out in my mind are the DRT's. The shots that haunt me are the animals I never recovered, some hit well, some hit poorly due to something beyond my control. If you want to hunt with a 6.5 go for it, choose your bullet wisely, because the bullet is more important than anything else. If you are hunting in Griz country, either take out a large life insurance policy or have a buddy with a .33 something as a back up. Just remember our Griz are smart, they let the hunters kill the elk and then go see how tough the hunter is! P.S., ask some of our Alaska brothers if they know of any guides that use a 6.5 as a bear fight stopper, Nuff Said!

 

[Mallardhammer]

Apparently there is some kind of distorted physical equation used to imply that a 270wsm "hits just as hard" as an RUM? I've done the tests, seen many clients with The different rifles and chamberings. This is just false.
That aside, Ive taken a big cow with my 6.5saum at 422 yards (143eldx, can't remember MV). Worked wonderfully. And I felt no need to be a complete blowhard about it. I wouldn't hesitate to take your Saum as it's a great western cartridge. But if you decide to step up to a magnum cartridge, it doesn't mean your poorly endowed.
BTW I'm not from back east, so I'm basically an authority on the subject.

 

[D.Camilleri]

I once met a guy that worked for one of the long range hunting tv shows. He told me that editing is a wonderful thing so that you don't see all of the bad shots and wounded animals, just sayin. Stuff happens, given enough time we will all make a bad wind call, a bad range or the animal will move just as the trigger is pulled and then, a bad shot happens. On elk, they are tough and have a will to live, I have tracked a few hit with a big gun and it put enough of a hurt on them that I was able to finish what I started. I have known many people that have hit elk with smaller calibers, like 25-06 and never found the elk, good hit, no blood trail and no elk recovered. A buddy of mine shot a very large bull elk two years ago with a 215 gr Berger from a 300 rum, hit the bull twice and the bull disappeared never to be seen again. That bull haunts my friend, because he can't understand what happened. He has killed many, many elk and the best bull of his life died somewhere where he couldn't be found. This is a long range hunting forum, we shoot long and usually kill long, sometimes it doesn't work out. If I was shooting a 6.5 on elk, I would limit my shot to a distance that I could place the bullet spot on 95% of the time from many different shooting positions and avoid the shoulder bone. I would probably limit my distance to no more that 500 yards and practice making quick follow up shots.

 

[Todd Gansel]

You mean the one in the 60s with 1:10 twist? Nope. Not that old. However, Winchester, Remington, Montana, Cooper, and some private gunsmiths I know make lots of .264 Win Mags, including my smith, who could have built himself anything he wanted. Manne=s stock, Bartlein 26" barrel, Vais brake, and Defiance action with Jewell trigger, and with 1:8 twist, he's golden to 3/4 mile given the huge NF on top.

My 264 uses a 1:8 twist 26 inch Lilja barrel #5 contour. It's on a push feed Winchester 70 with a B&C Medalist stock. Anyway the gun shoots great. I'm re visiting loads as I'm running on a slightly warm side and I get an occasional ejector mark on the brass. Currently running 68gr Retumbo under a 140 Berger VLD. Five shot average over the Magneto Speed is 3228 FPS. love the gun would love it more if it wasn't running a belted cartridge.

 

[FIGJAM]

Apparently there is some kind of distorted physical equation used to imply that a 270wsm "hits just as hard" as an RUM? I've done the tests, seen many clients with The different rifles and chamberings. This is just false.
That aside, Ive taken a big cow with my 6.5saum at 422 yards (143eldx, can't remember MV). Worked wonderfully. And I felt no need to be a complete blowhard about it. I wouldn't hesitate to take your Saum as it's a great western cartridge. But if you decide to step up to a magnum cartridge, it doesn't mean your poorly endowed.
BTW I'm not from back east, so I'm basically an authority on the subject.

This is funny... I haven't noticed a difference in how quick the elk die between the 25-06 and 300 rum. The 270wsm knocks the wind out of them just as good as my 300 rum. Just make a good shot. Guys who claim you HAVE to use a big 300 plus magnum are usually compensating for something. Maybe its experience, maybe its marksmanship, maybe its their height, maybe its their manhood...who knows, but it is something.

Now admitting that a 6.5 caliber is adequate for elk and shooting a 338 because you want to is different.

Problem is a lot of people who are looking at coming back west for their first elk hunt use this site as a resource and they hop on here and read that anything less than a 300wm won't kill an elk and its better if you have a 338. So they go buy a RUM that they can't shoot for crap and end up with a wounded animal and a cut across the top of their eye.

This is a fact -pick a well constructed bullet, don't suck and put it in the vitals , the elk will die, regardless of what cartridge you use. If the elk runs off after you shot it never to be found, it wasn't the cartridge, it was the shooter.

 

[FIGJAM]

View attachment 141730

I might 'rain on the parade' or at least hang a dark cloud over the 6.5. The bull pictured was taken last year with a 6.5 SAUM 140 grain Berger VLDH at 367 yards. It took two perfectly placed shots to put him down, however if Mayhem would have raised its head I may not have been so lucky.

This formed my opinion that the round may be a bit light for large bodied animals. That bull was standing still feeding and when hit absorbed those hits like it was no more than a slap...dead yes, but not an impressive bang flop.

Based on that experience, I am rebarreling the rifle to 300 WSM since that makes the most sense to me because of the short action and will push 190 or 200 grain pills.

I think a lot of people expect the bang flop on impact when it comes to killing elk...when did this start? A lot of time when an elk gets hit is will just stand there - they aren't like deer where they kick up there legs and take off running. If you have made a "perfect" shot they will usually go down after a couple seconds of either standing or staggering around. I am a believer that you shoot until they are down, but there have been a couple times that I saw my shot was right where is needed to be and just watched and waited. Sure enough after a standing there for a few seconds and maybe little staggering they go down.

Those shots when their legs come out from under them are usually because of a high shoulder shot - and I have never believed that is the best shot placement.

 

[Rick Richard]

I think a lot of people expect the bang flop on impact when it comes to killing elk...when did this start? A lot of time when an elk gets hit is will just stand there - they aren't like deer where they kick up there legs and take off running. If you have made a "perfect" shot they will usually go down after a couple seconds of either standing or staggering around. I am a believer that you shoot until they are down, but there have been a couple times that I saw my shot was right where is needed to be and just watched and waited. Sure enough after a standing there for a few seconds and maybe little staggering they go down.

Those shots when their legs come out from under them are usually because of a high shoulder shot - and I have never believed that is the best shot placement.

Well, I have killed a tad more than this one and the ones shot with heavier caliber/bullet buckled immediately on impact. So, my opinion is based on that and the ones I have taken with smaller/ lighter calibers, which is why I am going back to heavier. Just my opinion and experience.

 

[Don A Parsons]

I hunt in Black and Grizzly Bear territory and have never had an encounter in the North over 40 years,,, one thing humans forget is that all predators have a fear to Brake Clean,,, more so when it's on fire... Ha...

Did you know that more hunters have been injured and or killed due to Moose,,, Kow Moose are humans night mare fore sure...

The bear thing always comes up on every thread as a defence to justify for a larger pipe...

Those of us that hunt these Bear grounds learn to Jack booltiz fast,,, last week I was 4 shots in 4 seconds from a long action bolt action rifle...

4 hand sized targets at different spots on the Rapped fire range as this is my first warm up shots to start the day,,, Three / 4 shot sets to get things underway...

If you can't tag all 4 hand size targets in 4 seconds at 80 to 40 yards free hand,,, it might be wize to pack different Bear defence stuff,,, those that like Bear spray can have at it,,, our family and friends will stick with BC since it works...

Any-who,,, the 6.5 Samy will work just fine,,, it has 3 to 400 ft-per seconds gain over my 65,,, the trick for me is to close the gap and / or,,, dump a extra plug of lead into the Wrapper,,, its just that simple...

PS: Let's not forget that there are tens of 1000's of hunters up here in the North with 308's,,, 30/06's,,, 270's,,, and some smaller than that in Grizzly Bear territory,,, some of our friends are still using 30/30's and British Lee Enfield 303's since this is what they own... And yes,,, some have 300's,,, 338's,,, 375's,,, 416's,,, and 458's,,, it really depends on what funds a person has that decides what rifle or hand gun your packing...

So far so good with my mid size cartridges,,, I'll stay on this path since I shoot them well...