What second rifle for western hunting?

[redneckbmxer24]

I'm putting together a two rifle system for general western big game hunting. I know it can be done with one and could be done with what I already have, but I want to bring two rifles with me and none of my others would be well suited for it. Factory ammo availability is a must, but it being somewhat limited (7PRC for example) doesn't bother me too much since I have a rifle in 6.5CM that would work for everything in a pinch. I don't plan to or desire to harvest game at 1000+ yards, 600 yards is where I'm very comfortable placing a first round hit in all but the worst field conditions, in perfect conditions I might extend that to 800 yards.

I've got a Seekins PH2 NRL in 6.5 CM already. It's just a PH2 with an extra sling stud and MLOK section in the forend and a TT Diamond trigger. I put a Hawkins tank brake on it thats not too concussive to help with positional shooting and spotting and don't plan on running a suppressor due to the 24" barrel but I can easily run my TBAC Ultra 7 if I wanted or pull the brake and run plain muzzle. I'll use this for NRL Hunter matches, long range shooting (I have other target rifles as well), and medium game hunting. It weighs a hair over 9lbs with optic and mag (no bipod) and right at 10lbs with bipod.

For the second rifle I think I'd like to still stick to a Seekins. I'm very happy with all of mine and I really like the stock on the PH2 and everything about it. I don't know if I want to run my suppressor on one or not, if I do I don't want a 24-26" barrel though. Beyond that I'm not sure what to get I'm going back and forth between a PH2 and an Element and also the chambering.

So I'm considering the following options, in no particular order of preference:

1. Element in 6.5 CM and run my TBAC ultra 7 for about a +1.5" length penalty over my PH2 NRL with brake or +3.5" penalty over plain muzzle. It would weigh about the same (probably a hair less overall) and be suppressed, use the same ammo, and get me a backup rifle. I could also run it without the can or a brake for a more compact and lighter rifle for mountain and timber hunting. The downside is it wouldn't add any practical capabilities to my two rifle system otherwise, but I'm not sure I need something with more downrange performance or a bigger bullet. With two 6.5CM's I'd probably cut my shots off at 600 yards though since that would give me about a +200FPS threshold over the minimum expansion velocities of the 143gr ELDX or 127gr LRX bullets I'd run.

2. Element in 7PRC. I would shoot this suppressed for hunting or with a brake. Where it would end up weight wise would probably be a little over my comfort threshold for recoil with plain muzzle so that wouldn't happen. I'd probably shoot it at the range less because of the recoil and barrel profile, but I'd shoot it enough and I've got my PH2 for that anyway.

3. PH2 in 7PRC (also considering 7RM) and leave it as is. At 7.2lbs bare it's heavy enough I'd be comfortable shooting it a bit without a brake in either PRC or RM and the 26" barrel would be the same length as my 6.5 with the brake which I don't consider unwieldy. I've hunting in VA in both the woods and fields since I was a kid and used a 26" barrel rifle more than anything else for big game although I did hunt quite a bit with shorter barrels both suppressed and not. For most of my shooting with this option I'd probably get another Hawkins brake for it. I like that this could double as a ELR range toy as well since I don't have one currently, but that's not a top priority, it would just be a plus to this option.

4. PH2 with a second barrel. If I went this route I'd probably buy it in 7RM or 300WM just to have another option (300WM makes more since in this scenario in my mind) and then have Seekins make me a second barrel in a 20" 7PRC configuration to run suppressed. I could also just get it in 7PRC like option 3 and also add a 20" barrel for hunting suppressed and consolidate ammo. I wouldn't bring both barrels with me, wrench, and barrel vise out west with me most likely to take advantage of having a third caliber, but I suppose I could if I wanted to as long as I wasn't flying.

5. Other? I've considered getting a LA origin and putting a 7PRC or something (or multiple barrels) together on a MDT HNT26 but I already know it's not going to really do anything that another Seekins won't other than cost more. I've also considered other factory rifles but keep coming back to the Seekins. I've also considered just getting a classic Remington BDL in 308 or 30-06 since it would be perfectly adequate too and I think they look nice. I'd probably use it more as a high country and woods rifle though and limit my shots to 500 yards or so since velocity would be lower for expansion with those with any of the factory ammo I'd run.

I haven't hunted out west beyond coyotes and prairie dogs. I know some put high priority on weight when hunting in high country which I may do (I have no idea what terrain I'll be hunting), but I don't shoot extremely light rifles well and would rather carry an extra pound to have a more stable shootable rifle. 8.5lbs is about as light as I'd like to possibly go and that's about where an element would end up kitted out. So I don't want a lighter rifle than that. I also don't know how much of a PITA it would be hunting out west with a braked rifle but on the east coast things often happen quick and at close range and getting ear pro in isn't an option a lot of the time beyond stand hunting. A lot of people seem to hunt with brakes though and it's becoming more and more common so I guess it's not that big of an issue. I like that game doesn't tend to spook as much with a suppressor and I've killed multiple deer before because of that but I just don't know how much of an advantage that would really be unless I'm hunting along side someone else that also had a tag and multiple animals presented themselves. That might also be stupid to have two animals down if they were somewhere that they needed to be packed out.

So for those who do a lot of western hunting, what would you do and why? How important is having something more than 6.5CM vs having two rifles that use the same ammo and almost shoot the same dope. How important is suppressed vs braked vs plain muzzle. How important is having an inch or few more or less on the muzzle and a half pound or so weight?

 

[idcwby]

If you need factory ammo available, it's hard to pass on the 300 Win. The 300PRC would be another choice, I've seen it on the shelves a lot the last few years. In a pinch your more likely to run into 300 Win ammo in the small town sporting good stores.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

If you need factory ammo available, it's hard to pass on the 300 Win. The 300PRC would be another choice, I've seen it on the shelves a lot the last few years. In a pinch your more likely to run into 300 Win ammo in the small town sporting good stores.

I just don't reload at the moment (sold all my reloading stuff when I moved to FL) and with costs and availability of components I probably won't get back to it anytime soon.

I've got my 6.5CM though so I'm not very concerned about being able to find ammo for my second rifle at a mom and pop store. Even Walmart has 6.5 on the shelf in a half dozen flavors that would work in a pinch.

I'm far more concerned about prioritizing whether I NEED a magnum, something shorter, or whether I should put a priority on hunting suppressed or is a brake fine.

I would only buy a 300WM though unless I was going to get a 7PRC barrel made too. I've had 300WM's and I'm a target weight rifle for ELR I loved it launching 215 Hybrids but in hunting weight rifles it was beyond what I found comfortable to shoot. I could manage with a brake probably but would still prefer the lighter recoil of a 7mm.

 

[belldar]

7PRC and 300WM for me. Custom tikka with proof barrel for 7PRC (NX8)and factory tikka Roughtech Ember in 300WM(SHV). Both capable of anything I need and light. These are my traveling mountain rifles. Around home for coyotes I can use my heavy varmint rifles or another light tikka in 6CM.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

7PRC and 300WM for me. Custom tikka with proof barrel for 7PRC (NX8)and factory tikka Roughtech Ember in 300WM(SHV). Both capable of anything I need and light. These are my traveling mountain rifles. Around home for coyotes I can use my heavy varmint rifles or another light tikka in 6CM.

I'm really only interested the options mentioned and would like feedback on those as well as suppressed or brakes or not and length. I just sold off my last 3 tikkas including one custom with a proof because I didn't care for them.

 

[belldar]

I'm really only interested the options mentioned and would like feedback on those as well as suppressed or brakes or not and length. I just sold off my last 3 tikkas including one custom with a proof because I didn't care for them.

Sorry to offend you

 

[Lee7588]

If thinking that you might shoot past 600 yds on an animal, leave the CM at home IMO. I don't take a shot on an animal if the energy of the bullet is below 1000 ft lbs. I'd pack a 300 win or a 300 PRC. For my ethics that gives enough energy to take the animal quickly.

 

[Catskills]

For what it's worth, I always take a couple rifles on my yearly western hunts. For example, in 2023, it was a Tikka T3x in 270wsm, and a HS Precision 30-06. Both have proven more than capable on deer and elk to 600yds. In 2024, it will be a Seekins Havak PH2 in 300win and a Mark V 300wby or a Sako 7STW. The truth is, for 600yds and in, any of the cartridges you've mentioned, including your 6.5CM are more than adequate. I shoot handloads exclusively and am constantly testing loads. None of my big game rifles wear a break except he 30-06. I'm not immune to recoil (the magnums seem to kick harder than 30 years ago). However, I can't always get hearing protection on in a quick shot hunting scenario. Consequently, I'm not a big muzzle brake fan (nor are most hunting guides). If I lived in a free state, suppressors would be a game changer. Alas, I'm stuck behind enemy lines.
Final thought: I find it takes a lot more effort to get light rifles to shoot to their potential off a bench, let alone a makeshift rest in the field. To that end, notwithstanding the years/miles, I've moved away from lightweight rifles where longer shots are likely.

 

[wldcat]

I would say leave the 300's at the stores!! Unless you're pushing longer ranges I don't see a benefit in punishing your shoulder. Another ph2 in 7 prc seems perfect, pretty capable at your 600-800 max range for anything you'll find out there

 

[nwmnbowhunter]

Element 7prc

 

[idcwby]

I'm really only interested the options mentioned and would like feedback on those as well as suppressed or brakes or not and length. I just sold off my last 3 tikkas including one custom with a proof because I didn't care for them.

Suppressor over a brake anytime in a hunting situation. Length is what you're comfortable packing. I packed a 28" barreled 300RUM with an 8.5" can, I was just shy of 60" OAL. It wasn't horrible until you got into the low hanging branches. I built a 33XC, so I determined I didn't need the barrel length on the 300 anymore, so it wears an 18" barrel with the can, which gives me about 26" barrel length currently. Length is a preference on what you want to deal with. I do a lot of bird hunting, so I'm use to packing a lengthy gun, so the longer stuff doesn't bother me as much as it will others.

I'd still go with a 300 Win, in your situation because I've been in the mom and pop stores that have 300 ammo, but no 6.5, especially during hunting season. The other thing to consider is your more likely to find a suitable elk round in a 300 win and if they do have the 6.5 in stock, the bullet may not be what you need or feel comfortable shooting at elk.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

If thinking that you might shoot past 600 yds on an animal, leave the CM at home IMO. I don't take a shot on an animal if the energy of the bullet is below 1000 ft lbs. I'd pack a 300 win or a 300 PRC. For my ethics that gives enough energy to take the animal quickly.

I don't necessarily buy into the 1000 ftlbs theory with modern bullets because you could blow a big portion of that energy out the other side on a pass through or dump it all without a pass through. But my 6.5 with 143 ELDX at the 2730fps I got with it stays above 1800fps (200 more than minimum expansion velocity) and over 1000ftlbs out to 725 yards. So by that theory it's a 700 yard big game round.

For what it's worth, I always take a couple rifles on my yearly western hunts. For example, in 2023, it was a Tikka T3x in 270wsm, and a HS Precision 30-06. Both have proven more than capable on deer and elk to 600yds. In 2024, it will be a Seekins Havak PH2 in 300win and a Mark V 300wby or a Sako 7STW. The truth is, for 600yds and in, any of the cartridges you've mentioned, including your 6.5CM are more than adequate. I shoot handloads exclusively and am constantly testing loads. None of my big game rifles wear a break except he 30-06. I'm not immune to recoil (the magnums seem to kick harder than 30 years ago). However, I can't always get hearing protection on in a quick shot hunting scenario. Consequently, I'm not a big muzzle brake fan (nor are most hunting guides). If I lived in a free state, suppressors would be a game changer. Alas, I'm stuck behind enemy lines.
Final thought: I find it takes a lot more effort to get light rifles to shoot to their potential off a bench, let alone a makeshift rest in the field. To that end, notwithstanding the years/miles, I've moved away from lightweight rifles where longer shots are likely.

This is my reasoning behind a 9lbs loaded PH2 in 7mm PRC or RM, either of them would be something comfortable shooting so I could run a full length barrel with no brake. 9lbs I can throw on my light fill pint size gamechanger and it's steady enough.

Suppressor over a brake anytime in a hunting situation. Length is what you're comfortable packing. I packed a 28" barreled 300RUM with an 8.5" can, I was just shy of 60" OAL. It wasn't horrible until you got into the low hanging branches. I built a 33XC, so I determined I didn't need the barrel length on the 300 anymore, so it wears an 18" barrel with the can, which gives me about 26" barrel length currently. Length is a preference on what you want to deal with. I do a lot of bird hunting, so I'm use to packing a lengthy gun, so the longer stuff doesn't bother me as much as it will others.

I'd still go with a 300 Win, in your situation because I've been in the mom and pop stores that have 300 ammo, but no 6.5, especially during hunting season. The other thing to consider is your more likely to find a suitable elk round in a 300 win and if they do have the 6.5 in stock, the bullet may not be what you need or feel comfortable shooting at elk.

Yeah that length would be unwieldy to me, and probably unbalanced. My PH2 with a 33oz optic (including rings) and my 9.X ounce Ultra 7 balances much more forward than I'd like. Even shooting off a bipod it seemed light in the *** on the bag. When I was shooting off my gamechanger between the mag and bipod I was driving the rear of the rifle down somewhat. A long action PH2 would have some more meat in the receiver but I don't think enough to counteract the weight hanging 2" further forward. I'd also be looking at another pound basically with the can and increased rifle weight. If I had a 20" barrel made though I think it would balance well though and bring some of that weight back out of it.

I think the 22" lighter barrel of the Element would basically achieve the same thing too. I've only handled one in a store though with no optic or anything so I don't know.

I'm mostly leaning against a 300WM though unless it's just a secondary barrel for the rifle that would only be shot with a brake. I've had multiple and it's just over what I'm comfortable shooting in a hunting weight rifle without an effective brake. If I go with something with better ammo availability it would be 7RM as I'm more comfortable shooting it than a 300WM that has about half again more recoil.

 

[Mountain Sloth]

7PRC or a 300 of some flavor, then you can compliment your 6.5cm and have "authority" on elk out to your intended distances.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I'd also like to add that there's not a lot of priority on being able to pick up factory ammo at a local mom and pop shop for my second rifle nor whatever is available being the perfect elk bullet.

The reality is that if something happened to my ammo and I had to depend on local availability, even if I could get exactly what I normally shoot I wouldn't depend on a different lot that I haven't verified and shot to distance for taking longer shots. So I would limit my shots much more to the point that it probably wouldn't make a difference of whether what I found was 7PRC ELDX (or whatever load it likes), 300WM core lokt, or 6.5CM core lokt or powerpoint or whatever. If I could find several boxes and there was a 1000 yard range somewhere I could dope it at that would be great, but I wouldn't depend on that and I think anything beyond verifying zero and maybe getting a chrono reading would be pretty unlikely.

My first priority is being something I can shoot well and I'm comfortable shooting while being reasonably portable for most terrains I'd encounter because I really don't know what to expect.

My second priority is brake or suppressed or not, and reverting back to the first priority if it's plain muzzle and also if it's suppressed.