Wall Tent discussion - researching, want input from experienced users

[FlyFishn1]

Hi All,

I've been researching Wall Tents for a while now. I've been interested in them going back quite a long time, but never seriously considered them until now. We've been camping our whole lives but never used canvas, or similar material, wall tents - all nylon tent fabrics of various kinds.

Looking around online this forum seems to have a lot of discussion on wall tents, though no specific forum for them. If it should be in another forum here I'm sure the mods will relocate.

From my perspective looking at the Wall Tents - they are much different.

Our use would be various family camping outings, mostly. I am a ham radio operator also and we do a couple annual (summer/winter) events called Field Day that I am trying to plan for also. Modularity in tent options is a good thing (living quarters + a couple "cook shacks", for example - a topic I want to hit on later). Transportation would be by pickup truck/trailer, and I don't think we would be carrying the gear very far, but that isn't to say (modularity here) we couldn't pack in a module for a smaller/more remote camp.

I have a lot of ideas and points I'd like to cover over time, so for now I'll keep the post a bit short with a couple questions.

1. I am really wanting a stronger and more weatherproof solution than our cabin tents + tarps. I am leaning towards an internal frame design. I was at a hardware store yesterday and checked out the 1" EMT conduit. That appears to be a common frame material. I'd say that would make for a more robust and stronger frame than anything we've ever had, though heavy. So from a structure standpoint I think that would be pretty robust and not much of a concern. More of a concern would be the weatherproofness of the material - walls, roof. I understand a lot of materials are treated to help with shedding water and to protect from UV's etc. I would think a fly would be a requirement also.

2. How is the breathability of canvas and similar materials? IE - in the winter time with a stove going - will they insulate OK? Summer time in the heat if we run a room AC would it keep cooler?

3. On the subject of frames - has anyone had experience substituting EMT conduit for aluminum poles of similar dimensions?

Any input would be great. More thoughts later.

 

[wyosteve]

Since you're hauling it by vehicle, by all means get an internal frame. It can be a real pain to find appropriate poles if you don't have the frame. 2 other suggestions. 5 foot sidewalls should be mandatory. Anything less really diminishes useable space. Also, opt for a stove jack and sod cloth and preferably a zippered door and one or two screened windows. The tents can get warm in a hurry and the ventilation helps keep condensation down in colder weather. We'd typically take a 'blue' tarp or plastic sheeting for a fly. Have fun.

 

[FlyFishn1]

Since you're hauling it by vehicle, by all means get an internal frame. It can be a real pain to find appropriate poles if you don't have the frame. 2 other suggestions. 5 foot sidewalls should be mandatory. Anything less really diminishes useable space. Also, opt for a stove jack and sod cloth and preferably a zippered door and one or two screened windows. The tents can get warm in a hurry and the ventilation helps keep condensation down in colder weather. We'd typically take a 'blue' tarp or plastic sheeting for a fly. Have fun.

Thanks for the input.

Re: wall height - Im actually thinking of increasing that.

Im 5'10" and prefer some extra head room. With the sloped roofs there would be plenty of head room even with 5' walls, but close to the walls the head room would diminish fast.

On top of that - another wild idea I have is, and not using the tent frame, but another internal structure, is to build a "loft" 2nd floor for kids. I would have to work up some dimensions to see what is possible and what height would be required to make it work.

RIght now the 2 cabin tents we have are 10x14 and 10x19.5 (feet). In going to Wall Tents - Im thinking a pair of 14x15's with a couple "cook shacks". One cook shack I want as a common area/cook area sandwiched between the 2x living quarters. The 2nd cook shack, if used, Im thinking as my radio tent for Field Day ops - which would be off the other end of one of the living quarters tents. That would keep traffic confined to the "common area" cook shack between the tents.

The 14x15 floor plan would be a bit bigger than the smaller of the 2 tents we use now. Adding in even 1 cook shack and the 2nd 14x15 our tent space in camp would be significantly more. Adding in the 2nd cook shack would take a lot of desk space and clutter out of a living quarters tent - opening a lot more floor space.

 

[FlyFishn1]

Just to toss it out there - I am leaning towards going witu Davis Tent & Awning. There are a lot of positive reviews and posts about them here and other forums. I did call them and they seem very good to work with, and willing to do custom work.

 

[Flattire]

Just to toss it out there - I am leaning towards going witu Davis Tent & Awning. There are a lot of positive reviews and posts about them here and other forums. I did call them and they seem very good to work with, and willing to do custom work.

I have 4 Davis tents. The owners are great to deal with and will spend time talking to you.

 

[sndmn11]

I worked at Davis Tent for a little over a decade total.

I would not get a frame, ever, I'd get their traditional poles because they are significantly stronger, significantly better in weather, lighter, and shorter.

I would not get taller walls, ever, because they increase the wind profile and 99% of people put cots and other things around the perimeter. When someone is standing on the side of their cot, 3' from the wall, they have full standing height.

If you call in, the only person you should talk to is Chris.

 

[FlyFishn1]

I would not get taller walls, ever, because they increase the wind profile....

Thanks for the reply, info, and detail. I am not discounting the rest of what you said, just wanted to zero in on the point in the quote.

Can you detail your theory on the wind loading vs. wall height?

My thoughts right now are with the substantial amount of guy tie-out points available there is a significant amount of strength in that rigging + frame to transfer the forces down to the ground.

I am well versed in guy anchors - we anchor not only tents and tarps but masts and towers also (one I commonly set up is 65' tall, 4 way guy system at 2 levels, 8 guys total). If traditional stakes aren't enough to take a guy load there are lots of other options. For example - I've used a combination of 18-24" long 1/2" rebar rods for heavy guys along with 1/2" x 12" lag screws (we set up in a field with very hard ground at times - an impact wrench and the lag screws makes quick work out of setting guy anchors).

All that having been said, I still see a framed "wall tent" as substantially stronger than what we have been using with plenty of room to play with the dimensions.

I'm not arguing the point, rather laying some ground work for where I am coming from with how I am thinking about it. I'd like to contrast that with what your theory is and why.

 

[Tiny Tim]

Been using a couple of Davis wall tents for years. Windows are a nicely, not a necessity. 5 ft sidewalls work well for us.heats well in the winter (we use the liner from an old drip type oil furnace). As whosoever said, most people organize with stuff around the perimeter, so once 2-3' from the sidewalls, there's plenty of headroom. Can't testify to cooling in the summer, but that white canvas is wonderful compared to the old hexagonal army tent we used to use.

 

[Tiny Tim]

We also cover the tent with large poly tarps with one making and awning over the entryway. Cut a hole in it where yhe stove jack goes. The heat will keep that small area dry.

 

[sndmn11]

Thanks for the reply, info, and detail. I am not discounting the rest of what you said, just wanted to zero in on the point in the quote.

Can you detail your theory on the wind loading vs. wall height?

My thoughts right now are with the substantial amount of guy tie-out points available there is a significant amount of strength in that rigging + frame to transfer the forces down to the ground.

I am well versed in guy anchors - we anchor not only tents and tarps but masts and towers also (one I commonly set up is 65' tall, 4 way guy system at 2 levels, 8 guys total). If traditional stakes aren't enough to take a guy load there are lots of other options. For example - I've used a combination of 18-24" long 1/2" rebar rods for heavy guys along with 1/2" x 12" lag screws (we set up in a field with very hard ground at times - an impact wrench and the lag screws makes quick work out of setting guy anchors).

All that having been said, I still see a framed "wall tent" as substantially stronger than what we have been using with plenty of room to play with the dimensions.

I'm not arguing the point, rather laying some ground work for where I am coming from with how I am thinking about it. I'd like to contrast that with what your theory is and why.

The taller the structure, the more profile it has to catch wind. Just like when you see semi-trailers blow over on the highway but pickup trucks don't. Good stake purchase is 1/4 of the equation, you still need drum-tight material (1/2 the solution) and support from the structure. There is zero way to tension the material on the walls on a setup by setup basis, but the traditional poles system does the best job doing so because the individual poles are only connected by fabric rather than with a frame it all is fixed and rigid.

This is the traditional pole system https://www.davistent.com/product/traditional-pole-system/

One is creating a tensile structure when using it. You also create natural gutters/funnels for snow and rain to slide off. With an internal frame, your rafters are very long and you cannot get the canvas as tight. You also create a snow/rain dam at the top of the wall with the ridge pieces that are there.

 

[FlyFishn1]

The taller the structure, the more profile it has to catch wind. Just like when you see semi-trailers blow over on the highway but pickup trucks don't. Good stake purchase is 1/4 of the equation, you still need drum-tight material (1/2 the solution) and support from the structure. There is zero way to tension the material on the walls on a setup by setup basis, but the traditional poles system does the best job doing so because the individual poles are only connected by fabric rather than with a frame it all is fixed and rigid.

This is the traditional pole system https://www.davistent.com/product/traditional-pole-system/

One is creating a tensile structure when using it. You also create natural gutters/funnels for snow and rain to slide off. With an internal frame, your rafters are very long and you cannot get the canvas as tight. You also create a snow/rain dam at the top of the wall with the ridge pieces that are there.

Interesting thoughts. Thanks for the detail. Good food for thought.

Re: the rain/snow dam at the top of the walls with an internal frame set up - I can see the point. We ran in to a similar scenario (might have contributed to some of the tearing of one of our tarps last outing) with water pooling and not running off.

That having been said, it would appear the dam scenario would only come in to play without a fly. With a fly the guy tie-outs should allow that tension you speak of, no? That is to say - with the guy lines you can tension the fly over top of the frame.

That actually brings up another question. I believe the ideal fly set up is to have some dead air space between the fly and tent ceiling. Is that correct? If so - that would require more poles to pitch the fly I think.

Thoughts?

 

[jhaury]

Ive had a floorless 14x16 Davis with a rear window, storm door, and stove Jack for about 5 years now and have used it every year for 21-30 days in every season. I've been in temperatures ranging from 95 to -10. Had a few inches of rain and a few feet of snow on certain trips. Never ran a tarp or fly and had any issues with water in the form of condensation or leaks. I sleep 3 in cots comfortably with a stove and all our gear. They're awesome tents, buy what size suits your needs, buy the 1" emt, buy a 14x16 painters drop cloth for the floor so it's easy to wash, and don't worry about a thing. I have a 18" cylinder stove with a 4" pipe. It takes some practice to get the heat right but I've had it 70-80 degrees in there for the majority of the night while it was 0 degrees and snowing sideways at 40 mph outside. Also, some 3' concrete stakes and 4 ratchet straps is how I tie the corners down on windier trips. The tent hardly makes noise at night and is rock solid

 

[jhaury]

Also I'm 6'3" and have 0 problems with the 5 foot walls

 

[cabelasken]

I have a 4 ft wall and it does fine when we put the cots on the edge along the walls. The main room is 12X16 and then about 13 years ago I added an 8 ft extension to the front for a cook shelter. I took out the ceiling opening for a stove and heater and just use a propane heater now - no smoke. I also added 4 window openings for ventilation in the summer and they work well and zip up for the winter. We stayed 10 days in nearly zero degree weather and we were fine. We found military stakes worked best for hold downs but their availability in surplus stores is rare now.