I use a magneto speed barrel mount chrony, so I rarely check the ES after initial load testing. I also do not shoot 1000 yard competition, so I don't tend to take some things to the extreme degree. I seat with an arbor press. If you seat with a reloading press, it is impossible to get a feel on seating pressure. I think many of the 1000 yard type shooters use K&M or 21st Century presses that measure seating force. I have my own range out to 600 and use loading practices that give me confidence in my ammo. I am by no means a competition record setter. Can't say about the 300 mag # of reloads. I shoot mainly 6 Dasher these days with Lapua brass. I anneal every time and have some brass with upwards of 20 firings. I also neck turn for some cartridges. Of course brass life will also depend on how hot you load. Push it to the limit and primer pockets will be toast in short order. The biggest game I shoot is whitetail, so I don't load for any of the big boomer calibers. Biggest rifle I own is a 25-06 with 2 different barrels. I do load a few 7 Rem Mags for my son-in-law. The key word is few.
Tuning for long range
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Alex Wheeler
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When I still cared about seating force (another topic all together) I tested all types of neck prep. Its an easy thing to do if you own an arbor press with seating force gauge. If your not familiar with hand dies look into them. I full length size everything on my coax, but I seat everything with wilson dies and an arbor press. Nice to take to the range for seating depth testing too. Anyhow, seating force is mostly friction, not neck tension. Out of all the preps I tried, a stiff nylon brush produced the smoothest most consistent seating force numbers. 1000 yard ladder testing also showed me the best vertical with a stiff nylon brush only. Cleaning methods that remove that carbon layer like SS pins and ultrasonic cleaning are not recommended.
Alex Wheeler
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The 6BRA makes a hell of a varmint rifle with a short freebore. I post in my sleepGreat to see you over here on LRH sharing your knowledge. I've been reading your posts and watching your videos on AS for along while. You'll have these guys over here shooting 6BRAI's soon!I don't know how you find the extra time to share your experience on the shooting forums, but I am thankful for it! God bless you!
OFFISHN
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Matthappens
Active Member
Thank you for all the info, I am mainly just a target shooter and do not do competitions. However I do like to perfect things and am always picking peoples brains to do better. I will try this out the next time i do some loading and it will save me some time. I do shoot over 1000 yards but this time of year like you it is only at Whitetails. I have never neck turned my brass and use Lapua when I can. Do you use a machine to anneal your brass or do it by hand? I try not to load too hot to keep my brass in good shape and I use a redding reloading press. I did noticed my groups get smaller when I cleaned my necks really good but I get a lot of fine media inside my brass after a tumble so maybe if I eliminate that I will see a better result.
Matthappens
Active Member
Thank you as well for the advice. I will look into the hand dies, it sounds like a great idea. I too now full length size everything after many years of frustration neck sizing I noticed more problems than what it was worth. I will just try the nylon brush and not tumble my brass next time. I use a redding reloading press right now but have never had the chance to work with wilson dies. Is it worth the change to wilson? I just do the long range for fun and don't compete. Matt
longrangehunterII
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Great info here Alex! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and reloading process.
odoylerules
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Any thoughts/experience with dry lubing the inside of case necks just prior to seating the bullet?
I used load force from RSI which I purchase years ago.
What I found was that clean and polished necks were a step in the right direction but I noticed the most consistent numbers when I used a dry lube film in the necks which acted much like BN coated bullets in terms of reduced release force. By far I got the most consistent numbers with this setup.
For me and the way I look at it I want only the neck tension itself to control release force (seating pressure is as close as we can get unless we are testing for procedure rather than to fire) The lower the friction co the more we limit variables/inconsistencies. I think also when friction is reduced the consistency of the release along the entire neck surface area is improved. I run the higher end of normal neck tension (reduced neck diameter) .003-.004 but with very consistent single digit ES.
I recall AMP in there last writeup on here stating they got the best effect by leaving the carbon in the necks vs a brushed clean neck. As I would rather have control over that so I can ensure consistency as much as possible I would rather clean and polish the inside neck surface and use a dry film in place of the carbon residue.
Anyways it works for me but I have lots of time on my hands to load and prep brass. I wonder if I could take a deduction and put in as therapy??
What I found was that clean and polished necks were a step in the right direction but I noticed the most consistent numbers when I used a dry lube film in the necks which acted much like BN coated bullets in terms of reduced release force. By far I got the most consistent numbers with this setup.
For me and the way I look at it I want only the neck tension itself to control release force (seating pressure is as close as we can get unless we are testing for procedure rather than to fire) The lower the friction co the more we limit variables/inconsistencies. I think also when friction is reduced the consistency of the release along the entire neck surface area is improved. I run the higher end of normal neck tension (reduced neck diameter) .003-.004 but with very consistent single digit ES.
I recall AMP in there last writeup on here stating they got the best effect by leaving the carbon in the necks vs a brushed clean neck. As I would rather have control over that so I can ensure consistency as much as possible I would rather clean and polish the inside neck surface and use a dry film in place of the carbon residue.
Anyways it works for me but I have lots of time on my hands to load and prep brass. I wonder if I could take a deduction and put in as therapy??
Alex Wheeler
Well-Known Member
Yes, it was not as bad as other preps but didnt shoot as small as a nylon brush. The nylon brush does not disturb the carbon layer, it just burnishes it. The worst was a clean neck. A bronze brush removes the carbon and will about triple friction/seating force. If I had to use clean necks I would lube them with some graphite or lock eez
trackhoehunter
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Man oh man keep this good stuff coming! Every time I want to ask a question someone else does and then y'all answer it! Sure do appreciate you all's trial and error sharing. Maybe I won't feel like such a knucklehead when trying to work a load!
I agree with "the lower the coefficient of friction between case neck and bullet the better". And I ultrasonic clean my cases, so I HAVE to lube the case necks prior to seating bullets. I use Hornady Unique resizing lube. It applies more easily than Imperial sizing wax, such that a thinner layer can be used, yet 100% coverage acheived. It contains lanolin. Q-tip application of a light coating, and then removal of any excess with a fresh Q-tip. What could reduce the coefficient of friction more than the best resizing lubricant on the market (in my experience)? A product designed to maximize friction reduction between the resizing die and the casing? And isn't seating a bullet basically the same thing as resizing a cartridge case? That's my logic and process, and I think it's sound.
I haven't spent countless hours proving the benefits on paper. I don't have the time or interest to document some of these minutia. It could be a lifetime vocation.
Periodically I don't ultrasonic clean. Then I'll remove excess carbon on the interior of the case neck with a carbon remover like KG-1. Lube the case neck interior with Hornady Unique. Charge the case with powder and seat bullet. Hornady Unique is such an efficient lube that it overwhelms the other interior case neck prep measures. Friction reduction is friction reduction. And that's the bottom line goal in my process. The bullet doesn't know if there's some carbon residue in the case neck or not, as long as the friction is reduced.
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Alex Wheeler
Well-Known Member
A competition shooter will fire his cases upwards of 20 times, and never clean them. I used to do a quick wipe on the outside of the neck. What is important is the groups. Its not about reducing friction. There are things that will reduce seating force such as lubes and annealing. These things do not necessarily shrink groups. Never have I seen carbon buildup inside of a case hurt anything. I also doubt much build up happens. So long as your not leaving squeaky clean necks your not hurting yourself much if at all. One sign of how consistent your seating force is the oal length to the ogive of your loaded rounds. Big variations case to case shows big variation in seating friction. Assuming your bullets are reasonably consistent.
Nothing wrong with your process. I have gotten lazy in my old age. The nylon brush gives consistent seating force and saves oodles of time and steps. Without consistent seating force, one struggles to get consistent cartridge base to bullet ogive seating depth. Higher seating force results in longer longer dimensions and easier force results in shorter dimensions. Your method will produce even, or consistent, seating lengths, but at the expense of added labor. At least that has been my experience.
