To remage or not to remage, that is my question?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Max Heat, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. Max Heat

    Max Heat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    385
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    I'm planning to do a "big" barrel upgrade on my R700 (7RUM), with length to be 32" and diameter to be 1" at the muz. I have yet do decide on exactly which of the barrel manufacturers that I will end up going with. But the finished length that I want WILL put most of them out of the running. At this point, the choice looks like it will be between Shilen and McGowen. The cost will be roughly 480 vs 340, for a barrel of the drop-in ready, SS variety. I'm currently leaning towards the McGowen, because it seems to be such a good value, for a "large profile" barrel.

    But now a question has been raised, that I had not considered before. One of McGowen's options (similar to Krieger/Krytearion, & maybe others?) now is to "remage" the barrel. What that means is that instead of finishing the chamber end in the typical manor to fit a rem 700 action, where the shoulder requires precise cutting in order to properly HS it, they will finish it in a manor which allows a barrel nut to be used, allowing the barrel to be HS'd exactly the same way that the Savage setup works (using the exact same barrel nut wrench). The barrel price is the same for either standard or remage, but they will charge an extra 40 for the nut itself, if the remage procedure is chosen.

    I really do like the concept of remage, but I need the answers to basically 2 questions, in order to help me make my decision. I know (and like) that the barrel nut setup would turn what otherwise would be a smith-only operation into a "I can do it myself anytime I feel it needs it" operation. But my (1st) question is: Is the barrel nut setup as "robust" [if that is the correct term] as Rem's standard cut-the-shoulder setup, in terms of MAINTAINING an HS setting, over time, with several hundred hot shots through it? I don't plan on changing out the new barrel until it's useful life is over (shot out) - so it's not like I will be changing barrels very often. But if it is a situation where the HS WILL CREEP OUT a couple of mils or whatever, after a couple hundred shots, BARREL NUT OR NOT, I would like to be able to re-set it myself, instead of having to go to a smith to have the shoulder cut again.

    If the situation is that the cut shoulder barrel WILL HOLD it's HS tight for the life of the barrel, while the nutted barrel will not, that would lend 'weight" to sticking with the "standard" remington setup. Typically, my logic dicates sticking with the standards, when it comes to firearms - UNLESS there is a reasonable possibility that the standard in question could or will change. Now this DOES hinge on whether or not the "nutted" bbl can in fact maintain it's HS as well as the "shouldered" bbl can. Now if the answer to that IS yes, I think that there is a reasonable possibility that Rem might switch over to a nutted setup, as I'm sure that any Sav patents on it are long expired. It THAT were to be the case, it would lend what in my opinion would be an "overwhelming" amount of weight to the decision on whether or not to "remage" the new bbl that I will be purchasing. Any opinions on whether or not Rem might decide to make such a "bold" move?
     
  2. Fergus Bailey

    Fergus Bailey Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    223
    Joined:
    May 3, 2001
    The Remington and Savage approach to headspacing are equally durable, and really shouldn't really come into the equation from a strength/longevity perspective.

    The benefit of the Savage nut is that with an investment in a spanner to match the "nut", and the appropriate headspace gauge, any home handyman could remove a factory barrel, then attach (and headspace) a pre-fitted barrel themselves. And this has a lot of appeal to many shooters.

    HOWEVER. If you send you barreled action (a Remington, or other traditional barrel fit) to a gunsmith to have a barrel fitted, that same gunsmith should be able to send you a threaded & chambered (and correctly headspaced) barrel every time you need a new one, without ever having your rifle in their shop again. All you need at home to fit the new barrel is an action wrench. a barrel vice, and some lube for the barrel threads (note: this assumes a custom barrel and does not apply to removing the factory Rem barrel).

    I am not a fan of the Savage "barrel nut", although I certainly recognise that it works. In the scenario you have described, MY choice would be to advise the person fitting the barrel that you want a "switch barrel", and that they need to get all the dimensions to supply other barrels in the future. Then, you should be well set to swap barrels on and off as needed.

    You will also need to have the Rem recoil lug pinned to the action, but that is not dependent on the approach to barrel fitting - IE you would need it for either.
     
  3. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,272
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Have you called and talked to Douglas or Hart?

    I'm sure both would be able to help you for a reasonable price. They will also true he action and rebarrel it for you.
     
  4. AZShooter

    AZShooter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,221
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    I cannot help you in your decision to use a barrel nut. Seems like it would work. You don't hear of any barrel nut issues with savages.

    I just wanted to say bravo for making a 32" 7 RUM. I always felt this cartridge could come into its own and really walk away from the other 7mms with more barrel length. Factory 26" barrel lengths just don't cut it.

    Please post your results when you get to shoot this monster. Are you going to get enough twist to be able to shoot the upcoming 195 Berger?

    One more thought, RL-33 might be perfect for this package.

    Good luck!
     
  5. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,272
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    50 BMG powder might work good too, giving it that slow burn rate with that longer barrel.


    Also, I must have skipped over the whole barrel nut thing... I know I have read alot, that Pac Nor has done them for plenty of folks, and done a good job.
     
  6. trebark

    trebark Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,490
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    Many barrel manufacturers can make a 32" barrel. For instance Brux made the 32" barrel on my RUM: http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f53/my-300rum-mcr-70809/

    As for wether to 'nut' or not I don't think it matters. The headspace on my custom barreled remingtons has never moved after thousand of rounds down the barrel. My buddies with Savage actions have never had any issues with their either.

    Regardless of which way you go, switching barrel is easy provided you have the right tools.
     
  7. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,272
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    You do know you can make your rifle a switch-barrel 700 without having to install a nut, like the Savages....Right?

    Your smith can drill and pin your recoil lug to your action, and then he can cut the barrel chamber and all and setup the headspacing on your barrels in various calibers, then you can go home, and all you have to have to swap is a torque wrench, a 700 action wrench, and a barrel vice.
     
  8. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,529
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    I see no advantage to a barrel nut in your case.
    Here is my reasoning;
    Most every post of yours I've read has had little bitty bullets going about 5000 fps Past Light Speed.
    This causes Severe throat erosion, & you'll wind up having to set your bbl back every 2-400 rounds. To do this correctly, your going to need a gunsmith & a reamer anyway.
    In your case I'd see if you could order a 40" pipe so it'd last a year or so, with all the re-chambering/setting back, before it was about 16" long.:D

    Of course I'm being a smart @$$ but its with tongue in cheek, cause we all know its true. It's your shooting style, not just a name. "Max Speed" & you live up to the name well.

    No offence meant what so ever. Just food for thought.
     
  9. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,148
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2010
    I think Pacnor was the first barrel maker to offer the barrel nut option. What you do is your business, but I go the barrel nut everytime as it's money in my pocket everytime
    gary
     
  10. Max Heat

    Max Heat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    385
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    OK folks, here is the dope. But please bare with me. My head is fatter than a hog right now - especially considering what just went under (behind, actually) my belt:

    I feel as though I just skord - big time! But now I play the waiting game for 3 months. I ended up "nutting out" on a McGowen deal that was just WAY too good to pass up! But first let me respond to some previous replies:

    On the bullet weight topic, I HAVE gone 1 step up from the noz 120 BTs. The low-end for 284cal is 100gr. I do have some, and have shot some, but due to being tail-less, I never really did like the way they flew. When I did step up to the ultra mag, I stuck with my 120s at first, thinking they would work out OK. But noda creature I hit with one ended up the way I wanted. With 1 ground hog, and 1 deer hit, the hog got hit head-on at about 130yds. I was not expecting to find ANY large pieces of it. But the120 was so explosive that 8 inches past the entry point (between nose and eyes) there was NOTHING left of it to travel any farther, leaving about 1/4 to 1/3 of the rear end of it in a single piece (turned inside-out and gutted, of course). The deer, maybe a little closer than that, was hit broadside, about 6 inches in front of the diaphragm. With that shot, I can literally claim that I blew the shxxt out of it. There was some on the ground and coming out it's rear as it was laying there. The round never made it to the opposite side of the rib cage before it disintegrated. The problem was that even though it was NOT a gut shot, it most definately WAS a gut BUSTER. The smell that I had to endure while dressing it made that pretty obvious. So I stepped up to139gr Hornady SSTs, & bought out every last one that Bobby Hart had (300). They do have sharper ballistic tips than noz, longer tails, and what looks like a secant ogive. Side-by-side, the SSTs look MUCH sleeker, and BC is .486 vs .417. They also have thicker jackets that are bonded to the core. I know that was definitely a step in the right direction. I moly-coat my bullets now also.

    OK, since I still want to add in the quote from my last post in the classifieds forum, I'll finish this part up by asking exactly what I need to do, as far as pinning the recoil lug to the action goes. Is it just a simple matter of drilling a hole with a hand drill, and then tapping a roll pin into it?

    This is the quote from the parts FS forum, where I describe the purchase that I just made:

     
  11. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,272
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    I still just don't understand why you would go with a barrel nut setup, when a pinned recoil lug switch-barrel is alot more common, you don't need any special parts, you don't need a special barrel, and it might cost you an extra $50 to have your smith pin the lug while the smith already has it doing all the work, instead of machining the reciever and threading it. Just seems like a good waste of a 700 action, to me, to try to make it like a Savage.

    But, it is your rifle, it will be unique to you, so more power to you.

    Post pics when you're done.
     
  12. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,208
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    He's not changing the action just adding a little more thread to the barrel and putting a nut on it, you could shoulder a barrel conventionally any time just like a Savage. Doing a switch barrel is easier with a nut, I have it both ways and the nut works better because as you take the barrel on and of your head space can all ways be set to zero, with the shoulder your head space will get tighter just from taking it on and off, not a big issue but it's there.
    I would still pin the lug so it always stays in place and you won't have a bedding issue with lug timing, Savages come with the recoil lug timed and a pin for locating it from the factory.
     
  13. Max Heat

    Max Heat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    385
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Whoa, git the mud outta yer eyes there, runner!

    Other than the nut itself, there are NO special parts needed. & NO "special" barrel, either. As far as I know, you can take a standard remington barrel, have the shoulder removed, and extend the threading to allow for the nut to be installed.

    And no, no, no, on ANY machining work or threading to the reciever. Other than pinning up the recoil lug, it is a straight-up plug-and-play, no-fuss-no-muss scenario. I like not having to be dependent on other people if I can avoid it. And that will be of far greater importance after yellowstone blows, and we will be facing a PAW (post apocalyptic world)!
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2013
  14. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,272
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    If the reciever isn't threaded externally, the only thing the barrel nut is there for is tension to keep the barrel's headspace at 0, instead of putting torque on the recoil lug with the barrel, it's putting torque on the lug with the bolt. That's the only true difference in the 2 methods.

    I understand that much...But other than the adjustable headspace and lack of a barrel vise, there really is no advantages over the old school way....Am I correct?

    Personally I think a barrel vise is a necessity when doing a job such as this regardless...It just makes things alot easier.

    I think my comments might made folks a bit excited...I wasn't criticizing your method, I was just curios why you would go that route.

    I was thinking you were going with a ferrule-style setup that threaded over the front of the reciever...That was my fault for that one.