How is it Remington koolaid if the barrel being torqued directly to the action method has been working since the flintlock was invented nearly 400 years ago? Please tell me how it's "Remington kool aid"?
Also, I'm still waiting to see these results yall keep touting about how the nut makes it more accurate? I'd love to see that one attempted to be proven... Other than supporter hear-say and internet conjecture that is going to be impossible to prove given that even aftermarket barrels shoot differently, and factory barrels are well-known to be hit-or-miss, and even then have a much wider accuracy variance...
Personally I have both.
I like playing with the savages cause I am a tinkerer. When I want to try out a new caliber with my savage all I do is call one of a half a dozen drop in barrel suppliers and usually have it in a week
If I decide to rebarrel one of my bolt guns I have to send it off to a gunsmith and it might be a year before I get it back. By then I have forgotten why I wanted to build the gun in the first place.
Personally I think the mausingfield action is the way to go. All the advantages of easily switching barrels with all of the issues with the savage action corrected.
But that tried and true Rem 700 action with a jewel trigger and a barrel nut is a much less expensive way to go. Still have the quick change advantage of the barrel nut and again all the weaknesses of the savage action corrected.
as for accuracy I really don't think there is a difference. You can find jewels and duds for both systems. Some guns just shoot better than others.
To barrel nut or to not barrel nut?
- Thread starter engineer40
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J E Custom
Well-Known Member
The OP ask a question "To barrel nut or not" I Gave my opinion, and the reason. You have not proven or explained why you think Remington's are less accurate and then state that after a re do
the problems are eliminated. That's why we do a rebuild ! to fix any problems. almost any action can be MADE ACCURATE. Do they come from the factory accurate ? sometimes. are all Savages
accurate ? NO !. are all factory rifles Accurate? NO.
From a Gunsmithing stand point, there are some actions that respond better to accurizing/blueprinting than Others. I don't consider any production rifle accurate enough without
some fine tuning. Occasionally you will find a 1/2 MOA factory rifle and that's ok for some but not
long range hunting because it limits the distance you can shoot. I ,Like many want a rifle that shoots better than I can, so I try to squeeze every bit of accuracy out of a system no matter what brand of rifle/action it is.
To "consistently" get below 1/4 moa there are things that have to be done to any rifle, so to compare a custom rifle to a factory rifle is like apples to oranges. If someone has a rifle that they want to improve the accuracy, there are things that need to be done that will help. I have re barreled many Savages and without a doubt eliminating the nut system was an improvement or I would still be assembling the Savage way.
Also, all of the most accurate rifles that I have built or bought have had a one piece bolt. the only reason I can figure is a good smith can build in accuracy on a once piece bolt, on a two piece bolt what you have is what you get. If you get a good well machined bolt, (Any brand) you luck out. if you don't your stuck unless you can true it.
Extreme Accuracy Is not based on what brand of rifle you buy but the quality of the smithing, the barrel, the loading of good ammo. and most of all a good shot. You can alter the quality of the firearm with good smithing and good quality parts. but the owner has the final say in how accurate a rifle is.
Final comment: Do away with the barrel nut unless you want to take it apart and switch barrels often, and get the most consistent accuracy.
J E CUSTOM
Buckammo
Well-Known Member
JE Custom. No one is attacking your ability to produce fine rifles. At the same time, I doubt that I could own one of your rigs for 3 times what I have in my cobbled together Frankenstein monstrosities. Typically, my rifles and my abilities yield 1/2 - 3/4 MOA (even 1 MOA) using a bipod and field bag under hunting conditions. Would that extra 1/4 MOA help me to get that first, cold bore shot where it needs to be on a consistent basis. I doubt it. My limiting factor is the ability to read the shifting wind in these mountain canyons. What I need is more trigger time. The way that I have found to achieve that is to eliminate the 4-16 month wait on a gunsmith.
John
John
Agreed! Jerry is one of those guys that is always willing and able to lend a hand and I look up to with the utmost respect.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
No offense taken. Also Its not about my rifles being better than others. Its about getting them as good as I can. I know that there are more accurate rifles than I have and better shooters than I am
so I compensate my inability with a rifle that can out shoot me. (I am the weak link in the system).
I have no doubt that your Rifles perform good enough or better than what you need but you are probably not as picky as I am. Most people would like to have the accuracy that I expect but are not as willing to go to the trouble that I am to get it.
I never settle for Ok or good enough (Just ME) I realize that not everyone is as picky as I am and have little if any need to improve a group by .003 or .004 thousandths, But if I can measure any difference I will do whatever it takes. This has caused me grief more than once because sometimes I can only go/improve so far. sometimes I have a hard time excepting the fact that a
1/4 MOA rifle is as good as it will ever be.
My goal on any rifle is to shoot less than 1/10th MOA (-.100 thousandths) On my good days. everything I do is to shave a few thousandths of the group size if I can.
Sorry if I seemed offended (I am not) I only give advice to help others from making the same mistakes that I have and hopefully have a more accurate/consistent rifle without the learning curve that spans 50+ years.
J E CUSTOM
snox801
Well-Known Member
I never settle for Ok or good enough (Just ME) I realize that not everyone is aaks picky as I am.
This is why I can't wait to start another Roy build as you have the same thought process I do. Hell I may have you redo my already done .257 so it's actually worth what I paid the first time to have it done. If only my wallet was as big as my want list.
This is why I can't wait to start another Roy build as you have the same thought process I do. Hell I may have you redo my already done .257 so it's actually worth what I paid the first time to have it done. If only my wallet was as big as my want list.
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
Take it from someone who's had both... Give a 26" barreled .25-06 AI 40º a shot. I think you'll be impressed with how much more efficient it is, and the velocity results will certainly be comparable.
engineer40
Well-Known Member
Thank you for everyone's feedback! Seriously, much appreciated!
This post has me wishing that I would have taken that class back in HS that showed you how to use a lathe and other precision tools.
This post has me wishing that I would have taken that class back in HS that showed you how to use a lathe and other precision tools.
I know I can put down $3500 and have a rifle that shoots in the 1's and 2's.
What is fun for me is trying to build my own that will at least shoot consistent 1/4" groups. This is my first attempt. long way from finished.
Savage dual port target action. Shilen 28" 6BR bull barrel and Richards microfit benchrest stock. Bedding a vblock in with devcon because this will be a switchbarrel. Have a Shilen 6.5 creedmoor barrel too
What is fun for me is trying to build my own that will at least shoot consistent 1/4" groups. This is my first attempt. long way from finished.
Savage dual port target action. Shilen 28" 6BR bull barrel and Richards microfit benchrest stock. Bedding a vblock in with devcon because this will be a switchbarrel. Have a Shilen 6.5 creedmoor barrel too
Not hard to do with a Savage. Groups below are from my Savage LRP 6.5 Creedmoor. I'm getting a 6BR barrel for it too.
Attachments
snox801
Well-Known Member
That's on my list for sure after seeing what your getting out of them it's very hard not to. I went with a 28" tube to take more advantage of the extra powder but it's def not a quick gun to get out a hunting shack or truck window. And any shorter your right a AI
snox801
Well-Known Member
That's on my list for sure after seeing what your getting out of them it's very hard not to. I went with a 28" tube to take more advantage of the extra powder but it's def not a quick gun to get out a hunting shack or truck window. And any shorter your right a AI really shines.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
Rcoody nailed it, not every build is about having someone build you a rifle, sometimes the fun is in building yourself, despite tooling limitations, the best rifle you can and be proud of it cause you know more about it than one you bought.
I started out just swapping barrels on my stuff then buddies stuff then started looking how to improve on that which lead to learning what each action needs to shine. Today I can build equal rifles with or without a nut, just don't matter. The best one I've seen shoot with a nut that I built has repeat groups in the .0's but those zeros were in the barrel and I didn't take away from them and the shooter/loader did not either.
Builders at the top end who are striving for precision all have things that they feel make a better rifle for them, not all are in agreement but build equally awesome rifles. I've seen a multi record holding BR rifle with a hand tight barrel, threading that looks like it was done by a blind monkey and a bedding job that look like bear poop but it would lay down groups like none other, then you see one that is perfect in every way shoot like butt, change one small thing and it lights up, so in the end most of use who care, do everything possible and so by elimination of variables it should shoot but can we really, and I mean verifiable put our finger on ONLY what it takes for a rifle to shoot, cause I see rifles all the time that defy what I think should shoot!!
I personally don't like using a nut because it's more work than just turning a shoulder,
in the end it's about the shooter having fun and getting what he wants, some of us have fun and get a kick out of building our own stuff and knowing the gutts of it, if that means using a nut, go for it, cause done right your not leaving anything on the table and your doing it yourself and if that is important rock it!!
I started out just swapping barrels on my stuff then buddies stuff then started looking how to improve on that which lead to learning what each action needs to shine. Today I can build equal rifles with or without a nut, just don't matter. The best one I've seen shoot with a nut that I built has repeat groups in the .0's but those zeros were in the barrel and I didn't take away from them and the shooter/loader did not either.
Builders at the top end who are striving for precision all have things that they feel make a better rifle for them, not all are in agreement but build equally awesome rifles. I've seen a multi record holding BR rifle with a hand tight barrel, threading that looks like it was done by a blind monkey and a bedding job that look like bear poop but it would lay down groups like none other, then you see one that is perfect in every way shoot like butt, change one small thing and it lights up, so in the end most of use who care, do everything possible and so by elimination of variables it should shoot but can we really, and I mean verifiable put our finger on ONLY what it takes for a rifle to shoot, cause I see rifles all the time that defy what I think should shoot!!
I personally don't like using a nut because it's more work than just turning a shoulder,
in the end it's about the shooter having fun and getting what he wants, some of us have fun and get a kick out of building our own stuff and knowing the gutts of it, if that means using a nut, go for it, cause done right your not leaving anything on the table and your doing it yourself and if that is important rock it!!
