Mikecr
Well-Known Member
This is an example of how anything but a fully homogeneous mix would likely end in higher ES (JE's concern).
Thoughts on mixing powder lots?
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gohring3006
Well-Known Member
I used to do it when I reloaded under max hunting loads before i got into long range.
That's when 1.5 Moa hitting a pie plate at 200 was good for deer hunting.
Now... After long thoughts about it, when we had a similar thread started a few years back, I quit...
After weight sorting brass, bullets, uniforming primer pockets, annealing, turning necks, eliminating run out, and doing all of my load development over a Chrony. I'm NOT about to use mix lot powder that's been shaking up by me in the basement...
That's when 1.5 Moa hitting a pie plate at 200 was good for deer hunting.
Now... After long thoughts about it, when we had a similar thread started a few years back, I quit...
After weight sorting brass, bullets, uniforming primer pockets, annealing, turning necks, eliminating run out, and doing all of my load development over a Chrony. I'm NOT about to use mix lot powder that's been shaking up by me in the basement...
Canadian Bushman
Well-Known Member
Ive been doing it for years. In the next decade when powder becomes plentiful and inexpensive ill try not mixing and let you know how my results differ.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
The idea behind loading duplex loads was the fact that we didn't have very many powders to work with and if you needed to use a slow burning powder, it could be hard to light with any consistency.
That is not the case anymore because we have many powders to chose from and very hot primers.
When this was normal, we looked for SDs below 15 to 20 ft/sec. and if we achieved single digits,
we were elated. Now it is everyone's goal to get into single digits and quite common.
The problem has always been the uniformity of the mix, whether blended or duplex. With the duplex loads we always used the faster powder near the primer to aid in ignition and the slower powder next to the bullets. sometimes we even added a 3rd powder (A few grains of very fast priming powder and the results were no better. We would get the slow powder to burn but SDs and ESs
were no better.
The older the loads got the greater the change in SDs because of migration of the fast/fine powders into the main powder charge, changing the burn rate. we tried many cures for this and nothing really work. the same issue exist when you mix powders.(The mix is not always even and distributed evenly).
I realize that there are people that still mix powders and load duplex loads, and all I am saying is it is not necessary anymore, and can lead to other problems that are not necessary.
The manufactures have Many reasons for not blending. and with the need to do so gone I stopped
doing it (Like many back in the day I tried many things that were not recommended but found that normal loading practices produced the best, most consistent results.
Just My advice
J E CUSTOM
That is not the case anymore because we have many powders to chose from and very hot primers.
When this was normal, we looked for SDs below 15 to 20 ft/sec. and if we achieved single digits,
we were elated. Now it is everyone's goal to get into single digits and quite common.
The problem has always been the uniformity of the mix, whether blended or duplex. With the duplex loads we always used the faster powder near the primer to aid in ignition and the slower powder next to the bullets. sometimes we even added a 3rd powder (A few grains of very fast priming powder and the results were no better. We would get the slow powder to burn but SDs and ESs
were no better.
The older the loads got the greater the change in SDs because of migration of the fast/fine powders into the main powder charge, changing the burn rate. we tried many cures for this and nothing really work. the same issue exist when you mix powders.(The mix is not always even and distributed evenly).
I realize that there are people that still mix powders and load duplex loads, and all I am saying is it is not necessary anymore, and can lead to other problems that are not necessary.
The manufactures have Many reasons for not blending. and with the need to do so gone I stopped
doing it (Like many back in the day I tried many things that were not recommended but found that normal loading practices produced the best, most consistent results.
Just My advice
J E CUSTOM
Rich Coyle
Well-Known Member
The manufacturers don't blend because the batches are sold and shipped! Then they make another batch.
SansSouci
Well-Known Member
I've discussed this concept with other loaders. Some swear that powder varies from lot-to-lot. If powder does vary, then it is not copy of the original. It would be a new powder.
Gunpowder is chemistry. As long as identical chemicals are used in precise proportions, lots should be identical.
Gunpowder is chemistry. As long as identical chemicals are used in precise proportions, lots should be identical.
gohring3006
Well-Known Member
All you have to do, is run different lots over a Chrony and it will tell you the lots are different.
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
It's not a 'concept', but a fact.
There are differences between various lots of powders.
Somebody help me with something I always wondered;
While IMR4350 is totally different than H4350, even though it's one company making them, what does the '4350' mean?
Rich Coyle
Well-Known Member
This reminds me of an engineer I used to work with. Both of us liked theory. The difference is when we went to the shop and implemented out theory and it didn't work, he could not adjust and make corrections. Poor guy was consumed by the idea the theory should work.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Sorry Wildcater, I meant to say Manufactures don't "RECOMEND" blending for many reasons.
J E CUSTOM
Rich Coyle
Well-Known Member
Got it. Thanks for the clarification.
So how would combining and blending be worse than multiple 1lb containers of powder with differing burn rates? This doesn't strike me as rocket science - my thorough and careful blending of separate lots of 1lb containers into one single, uniform lot of powder. How much worse could it be than fighting 3 separate burn rates from 3 separate containers. Unless, of course, you don't believe uniform blending is possible. If I can assemble better cartridges than factory ammo, I have confidence I can adequately blend some powder.
I blend differing lots of powder without concern. Wouldn't blend 20-year old powder with new powder, but when I burn 100gr of powder per shell fired, I can't see continually fighting differing burn rates every time I open a new 1lb container from a different lot.
And their are times when 8lb containers cannot be had.
There are exceptions to all manufacturer's recommendations, as many times recommendations are established to increase profits, more than any other purpose. If one doesn't understand the basis for a code or recommended practice, then by all means follow the code or recommended practice.
