The Nosler Hate... I don't get it.

I've got an 870 and have thought about picking up some of the max penetration Brenneke just to compared to some others like the Remington copper solids I've been shooting.

What would you think of some of the semi auto shotguns compared to the 870? They seem dependable. Would any semi auto be worth consideration on bear?

The max penetration Brenneke slugs kick pretty good, so hold on firmly. I'm willing to use a semi-auto for waterfowl or other non-dangerous game. My personal opinion is that a quality, and field tested, pump action shotgun is more reliable. A few less mechanical items to fail on a pump than the semi-autos. Fish & Game issues Rem 870s to all their field biologists, and I believe that selection would be based on simplicity and reliability.

Now I've mentioned the Brenneke max penetration slug only because it's the most powerful hard cast slug in the Brenneke lineup. But truly, their 12 gauge 2 3/4" Heavy Field Short Magnum hard cast slugs at 1 1/4oz would also be plenty sufficient. Brenneke hard cast slugs don't expand, they have a flat wad-cutter style nose, they shoot out of smooth bore shotguns very well, and the 0.730" hole they cut to their full depth of penetration is devastating on large animals at close range. I've talked to the local F&G officer and some police officers who've killed problem or wounded bears and moose with the Brenneke slugs. They all say they flat-out kill everything they've ever shot with them. Because they're a full 12 gauge diameter with a flat nose, they are not the slug to choose for shooting deer or bear at longer ranges, like from maybe 75yds on out. They lose velocity and energy much faster than some of the other smaller diameter sabot-style slugs. The Brenneke 1 3/8oz max penetration slug is just slightly more of any already good in-your-face bear stopping slug. A little more weight, a little more velocity, and more energy & stopping power. However I wouldn't hesitate to use their more commonly available line of Heavy Short Field magnum slugs either.

I killed a bull moose once at extended range, around ~120 yds, with a 12 gauge Brenneke 3" Magnum slug. Was hunting Sandhill cranes - not moose. But I was carrying some Brenneke slugs also, due to bears, and because moose season was also open. I'd never shot one on target past 50yds in my life. This bull moose walks out into the open and I get as close as I can before he sees me and starts to walk back toward cover. Was shooting a Rem 870 with 30" full choke barrel. Nothing but a bead on top of the muzzle of the barrel for sighting. I held about 18" over the back of the bull and touched one off. The bull bolted at the shot so I knew he was hit. He began slowing down as quickly as he'd jumped within about 10-15yds, and then walked until he could go no farther. Made it a total of about 55-60yds and collapsed. The 3/4" entry hole in the chest cavity of the bull was a little too far back and a little low - compared to ideal/perfect into the lungs shot placement. He was still alive when I reached him, but barely, and he couldn't get up. Never even tried. Now this was at 120yds after the slug had lost a lot of velocity and energy. The slug didn't exit, but had I placed the slug in the same location at 25yds or closer, the slug would have passed thru and thru. This was an opportunity of chance, and I took it. The Brenneke's shine in performance at very close range. Not the ideal longer range hunting slug.
 
Thank you for sharing your experience.!!

A hard 73 caliber flat nose near 600 grains at 1600 fps is indeed a massive hit. That's a Taylor KO 5 times the 44 mag.
 
Yup: simple, reliable, deadly. I don't have to worry about whether or not a Brenneke slug expands. It's already 73 caliber, and remains 73 caliber until it comes to a stop. One less thing that could fail is eliminated.

I'm leaving for a sheep/caribou hunt tomorrow. Grizzly country, and maybe a few black bears. Grizzlies in sheep country have as foul an attitude as bears do anywhere, on average. Some of them grow into the worst bullies in the world.

Several years ago I modified my Rem 870 20 gauge Lightweight shotgun by purchasing a Remington 20 1/2" smoothbore barrel, improved cylinder, equipped with iron sights. This shotgun is modified specifically for camp defense - like bear in-your-face defense. If we ever have a caribou or other game animal down in the willows or alders, I'm carrying this shotgun while returning from camp back and forth to the kill site. The magazine has been extended to hold 6 or 7 shells (can't remember), it's got tritium sights for low light use, and it's loaded with 1oz Brenneke Heavy Field Short Magnum slugs. Grizzlies are smaller than brown bears, and the 20 gauge slugs are still ~61 caliber and weigh ~440 grains. I've chronographed them at 1412fps MV, about 20fps faster than advertised. If I want to hunt ptarmigan, I load the magazine of this shotgun with 1oz of #6 lead shot and carry the slugs just in case the ptarmigan hunt turns into something much worse.

My brother's been a gunsmith and gun shop owner in Kenai, Alaska for more than 30 years. I benefit from his experiences repairing firearms, and all the Alaska bear tales that get shared in his gun shop. Alaskan's love a good bear story. That also factors into my preference for a FIELD PROVEN pump action shotgun, field proven with the shells that will be used to save my life. Normally an aftermarket magazine spring and follower, because I've had a Remington 870 3" mag fail to load from the magazine in the past due to a weak/old magazine spring that failed to hold the shells in the magazine firmly against the stop under the heavy recoil of 2oz loads of shot. So do test your firearm with the exact shells you intend to save your life with. It sucks to eject a fired shell and then close the pump action on an empty chamber. Trust me on that one.

Lastly, the reason for multiple quick rounds on a large brown bear at close range? The first time you see a 10' plus brown bear within 75 yards, it'll likely unnerve you. I'd hunted Alaskan game of all sorts, with both bow and rifle for 22 years before one jumped up from his sleep 60yds away from me in patchy alders. He was strung as tight as a banjo string. I didn't fall to pieces, but it was simply way more than I anticipated. When I came back to camp, I told guys I was with that if you EVER see a 10' plus brown bear up close, you won't have to ask anyone whether or not it's a big bear. Following experiences were never again so nerve rattling for me. But I'll admit the first one was pretty darn intense. Me, all by my lonesome, with a .280 Rem bolt action rifle. Felt like I had a BB gun. Gave me a whole new appreciation for the guide requirement for non-resident brown bear hunters required by Alaska law. I could've used used a guide for a minute or two, and that was after extensive hunting experience from the time I was 13, until that moment, when I was 47yrs old - and wondering if I'd live to see 48.
 
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Yup: simple, reliable, deadly. I don't have to worry about whether or not a Brenneke slug expands. It's already 73 caliber, and remains 73 caliber until it comes to a stop. One less thing that could fail is eliminated.

I'm leaving for a sheep/caribou hunt tomorrow. Grizzly country, and maybe a few black bears. Grizzlies in sheep country have as foul an attitude as bears do anywhere, on average. Some of them grow into the worst bullies in the world.

Several years ago I modified my Rem 870 20 gauge Lightweight shotgun by purchasing a Remington 20 1/2" smoothbore barrel, improved cylinder, equipped with iron sights. This shotgun is modified specifically for camp defense - like bear in-your-face defense. If we ever have a caribou or other game animal down in the willows or alders, I'm carrying this shotgun while returning from camp back and forth to the kill site. The magazine has been extended to hold 6 or 7 shells (can't remember), it's got tritium sights for low light use, and it's loaded with 1oz Brenneke Heavy Field Short Magnum slugs. Grizzlies are smaller than brown bears, and the 20 gauge slugs are still ~61 caliber and weigh ~440 grains. I've chronographed them at 1412fps MV, about 20fps faster than advertised. If I want to hunt ptarmigan, I load the magazine of this shotgun with 1oz of #6 lead shot and carry the slugs just in case the ptarmigan hunt turns into something much worse.

My brother's been a gunsmith and gun shop owner in Kenai, Alaska for more than 30 years. I benefit from his experiences repairing firearms, and all the Alaska bear tales that get shared in his gun shop. Alaskan's love a good bear story. That also factors into my preference for a FIELD PROVEN pump action shotgun, field proven with the shells that will be used to save my life. Normally an aftermarket magazine spring and follower, because I've had a Remington 870 3" mag fail to load from the magazine in the past due to a weak/old magazine spring that failed to hold the shells in the magazine firmly against the stop under the heavy recoil of 2oz loads of shot. So do test your firearm with the exact shells you intend to save your life with. It sucks to eject a fired shell and then close the pump action on an empty chamber. Trust me on that one.

Lastly, the reason for multiple quick rounds on a large brown bear at close range? The first time you see a 10' plus brown bear within 75 yards, it'll likely unnerve you. I'd hunted Alaskan game of all sorts, with both bow and rifle for 22 years before one jumped up from his sleep 60yds away from me in patchy alders. He was strung as tight as a banjo string. I didn't fall to pieces, but it was simply way more than I anticipated. When I came back to camp, I told guys I was with that if you EVER see a 10' plus brown bear up close, you won't have to ask anyone whether or not it's a big bear. Following experiences were never again so nerve rattling for me. But I'll admit the first one was pretty darn intense. Me, all by my lonesome, with a .280 Rem bolt action rifle. Felt like I had a BB gun. Gave me a whole new appreciation for the guide requirement for non-resident brown bear hunters required by Alaska law. I could've used used a guide for a minute or two, and that was after extensive hunting experience from the time I was 13, until that moment, when I was 47yrs old - and wondering if I'd live to see 48.

good luck with your hunts
 
I respectfully disagree. I wouldn't guide nor hunt with anyone who chooses to shoot a brown bear with a mechanical broadhead on his arrow. I disagree with the outfitter's request to not hunt brown bear with Noslers but there are some things that guides have seen a trend of problems with and you have to respect his experience/request. If a hunter told me he was bringing mechanical broadheads on a bear hunt, I would try to talk him out of it. If he insisted then I would give him references of outfitters who didn't care about your safety.
I've seen some ****.

I agree with this post, perhaps said guide has seen a bad trend with nosler bullets and would just like to eliminate that trend. I don't think it makes him a hater. I do realize we all have our favorite bullet choices and we sometimes get defensive when our choice of bullet it challenged.

As far as what I'd hunt a bear with, I'd like a .375. To stop a charge, a good case has been presented for the special forces slugs in my opinion.
 
Even after all this I'd still take on any grizzly, brown or mountain with my 250 grain .338wm without hesitation, however chasing a wounded one in heavy alders might require a non scope 12 loaded with those heavy slugs, but I'm bettin' it'll be dead long before that, hopefully !!
 
Hmmmm... I seem to recall being told that my S&W 629 .44 Mag shooting 300gr JHP's at 10ft would not kill a ****ed off grizzly bear charging at you... Guess this disproves THAT theory, because a 9mm next to a .44 Mag is like a .410 next to a 12ga. :cool:

Alaska Fishing Guide Kills Grizzly Bear with 9mm as It Charges Couple - Breitbart

Also, guess what the guide says he normally carries... A S&W 629 .44 Mag... :D
 
In the past 6 years we've taken 4 black bear, 3 moose, and 5 whitetail all with nosler bullets. Accubond and partitions. The nosler accubond is one of my favourite bullets! But if I was going for big bear, my first bullet choice would be a nosler partition!
 
Hmmmm... I seem to recall being told that my S&W 629 .44 Mag shooting 300gr JHP's at 10ft would not kill a ****ed off grizzly bear charging at you... Guess this disproves THAT theory, because a 9mm next to a .44 Mag is like a .410 next to a 12ga. :cool:

Alaska Fishing Guide Kills Grizzly Bear with 9mm as It Charges Couple - Breitbart

Also, guess what the guide says he normally carries... A S&W 629 .44 Mag... :D

Now you all know which guide to not hire should you come to Alaska. Some bears play for keeps, and view humans as opportunistic prey. A guide wants to take a chance with his own life, so be it. Don't let one take that chance with yours.
 
certainly not a grizzly , but a bear with a 44 mag . most of us carry 44s or 41 mags when bear hunting in the north east. i suppose if i was grizzly hunting i would take a sw 500 as the last means of protection.

IMG_1813_zpsnzzatohm.jpg
 
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